Help the Loaches!
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So, yesterday I did a 50% water change to start removing the Prazi from the water.
Just did about another 50%. Figured it's gone enough.
Noticed the yoyos flashing even more today, and even saw a tiger barb flash. So I figure SOMETHIN has gotta be up. My water tests out fine so what the fudge. I read my rid-ich bottle and decided to give that a try at 1/2 dose since I'm prolly not gonna have the levamisole til Thursday.
Perhaps this ich stuff will get somethin that the prazi didn't in terms of skin critters.
=|
Anywho... yeah the yoyos eat like crazy, and I have seen them obese after feeding... but this guy is STAYING obese, which is whats skeevin me out. Plus all the flashing.
A REVELATION TODAY:
Saw the big clown fighting w/my upsidedown catfish! Or rather, the catfish was chewin on the clowns head!! =o!!!! Clown wasn't really fighting back, but was squirming tryin to get away.
So I immediately took the catfish out and put him in the 20g tank.
I've noticed the catfish swimmin around a lot more lately. He used to hide 24/7 in the same cave, but it seems like hes been moving around from cave to cave lately. And when I saw him biting on my Clown, I thought maybe this is the cause of the white spot on the poor clowns head? Injury?
So I removed the U.D. Catfish to the 20g tank.
So... I'll observe closely today and tomorrow and see if that 1/2 dose of Rid-Ich helps etc.
<:|
Just did about another 50%. Figured it's gone enough.
Noticed the yoyos flashing even more today, and even saw a tiger barb flash. So I figure SOMETHIN has gotta be up. My water tests out fine so what the fudge. I read my rid-ich bottle and decided to give that a try at 1/2 dose since I'm prolly not gonna have the levamisole til Thursday.
Perhaps this ich stuff will get somethin that the prazi didn't in terms of skin critters.
=|
Anywho... yeah the yoyos eat like crazy, and I have seen them obese after feeding... but this guy is STAYING obese, which is whats skeevin me out. Plus all the flashing.
A REVELATION TODAY:
Saw the big clown fighting w/my upsidedown catfish! Or rather, the catfish was chewin on the clowns head!! =o!!!! Clown wasn't really fighting back, but was squirming tryin to get away.
So I immediately took the catfish out and put him in the 20g tank.
I've noticed the catfish swimmin around a lot more lately. He used to hide 24/7 in the same cave, but it seems like hes been moving around from cave to cave lately. And when I saw him biting on my Clown, I thought maybe this is the cause of the white spot on the poor clowns head? Injury?
So I removed the U.D. Catfish to the 20g tank.
So... I'll observe closely today and tomorrow and see if that 1/2 dose of Rid-Ich helps etc.
<:|
I tried to take a couple more pics of the clown... a little better this time:


Looks like fight scratches, no?
Speaking of fights... look what I caught on camera when I went down to get the clown pics!!!! (4mb)
http://www.fishiz.com/images/chris/tiger_fight.avi


Looks like fight scratches, no?
Speaking of fights... look what I caught on camera when I went down to get the clown pics!!!! (4mb)
http://www.fishiz.com/images/chris/tiger_fight.avi
=\ you think? Man... this stuff is so confusing. I'll have to read the rid-ich bottle again I think it said somethin about fungus too.
Good news is I haven't seen any fish flash since I added it.
Bad (?) news is that for whatever reason my barbs have been goin nuts chasin each other around and fightin (like in the vid) since I added it.
I dunno what thats all about... maybe it was just time for a brawl or for whatever reason the meds irritate the fish and they think it's the other barbs fault? hehe I dunno.
I got 10 of them tho so it's all good... there isn't 1 thats gettin picked on real bad or anything. They spread out the aggression.
Good news is I haven't seen any fish flash since I added it.
Bad (?) news is that for whatever reason my barbs have been goin nuts chasin each other around and fightin (like in the vid) since I added it.
I dunno what thats all about... maybe it was just time for a brawl or for whatever reason the meds irritate the fish and they think it's the other barbs fault? hehe I dunno.
I got 10 of them tho so it's all good... there isn't 1 thats gettin picked on real bad or anything. They spread out the aggression.
Did a 25% change and added another (1/2) dose of Rid Ich yesterday. (Tuesday 7/4).
The fish are still flashing so I'm not sure whether I should deem this stuff ineffective, or if I'm not using a strong enough dose or something. The bottle says safe for loaches at full strength, but I know the typical instructions around here say use 1/2 dose so thats what I've done Monday and Tuesday.
I might put in a 3rd 1/2 dose tonight and see if anything changes. I think the big clown is gettin a little better... the white on his head seems to be getting smaller. I will try to get pics again... perhaps its this ich stuff that is helping.
I'm still gonna do the Levamisole when it comes in (today or tomorrow?) cause the poor Yoyo is still goin nuts scratching.
:\
The fish are still flashing so I'm not sure whether I should deem this stuff ineffective, or if I'm not using a strong enough dose or something. The bottle says safe for loaches at full strength, but I know the typical instructions around here say use 1/2 dose so thats what I've done Monday and Tuesday.

I'm still gonna do the Levamisole when it comes in (today or tomorrow?) cause the poor Yoyo is still goin nuts scratching.
:\
UPDATE!
UPDATE 7/6
Got my 500ml bottle of Levasole today. I found this thread for dosing instructions: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... asole+dose
As recommended in the thread, I mixed up my bottle of levasole (levamisole hcl) and put 15 teaspoons of the mixture into my tank. 1 for every 5 gallons of water.
I did this after a 50% water change.
I see no immediate change in the fishiz, but hopefully this will help my itchy yoyos.
THE CLOWN loach w/the white stuff on his head is CURED! No more white stuff. Perhaps the ich med helped here, or perhaps he just needed a little time.
In any case, he's lookin much better now. No more white on his head.
Any comments, MikeV? You seem to be the only one interested in my situation.
=( Thanks for your help so far. I hope the levasole cures my yoyo. He is still flashing.
Got my 500ml bottle of Levasole today. I found this thread for dosing instructions: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... asole+dose
As recommended in the thread, I mixed up my bottle of levasole (levamisole hcl) and put 15 teaspoons of the mixture into my tank. 1 for every 5 gallons of water.
I did this after a 50% water change.
I see no immediate change in the fishiz, but hopefully this will help my itchy yoyos.
THE CLOWN loach w/the white stuff on his head is CURED! No more white stuff. Perhaps the ich med helped here, or perhaps he just needed a little time.
In any case, he's lookin much better now. No more white on his head.
Any comments, MikeV? You seem to be the only one interested in my situation.

=( Thanks for your help so far. I hope the levasole cures my yoyo. He is still flashing.
Not much in the way of comments yet.
That white stuff on the clown was some time of external parasite and that one of the poisons in the anti-ich med offed it is not a big surprise to me. I've seen funnier stuff: Meth. Blue had *some* effect on a deadly hillstream disease I dealt with very recently...not a cure but seemingly a delay.
Recheck that you dosed right. 1 teaspoon per 5g sounds too low; my calc was 1 bottle cap per 5g if one follows the instructions in the parasite faq on LOL (this is probably 5x what you did), or 1 cap per 10g if one follows the instruction in the May journal article on Levamisole.
Even if Levamisole does not help (I did not say it will--I only said it is a better drug than Prazi), treating all your loaches with it was a smart thing...this way you will not be asking questions about CWS later.
That white stuff on the clown was some time of external parasite and that one of the poisons in the anti-ich med offed it is not a big surprise to me. I've seen funnier stuff: Meth. Blue had *some* effect on a deadly hillstream disease I dealt with very recently...not a cure but seemingly a delay.
Recheck that you dosed right. 1 teaspoon per 5g sounds too low; my calc was 1 bottle cap per 5g if one follows the instructions in the parasite faq on LOL (this is probably 5x what you did), or 1 cap per 10g if one follows the instruction in the May journal article on Levamisole.
Even if Levamisole does not help (I did not say it will--I only said it is a better drug than Prazi), treating all your loaches with it was a smart thing...this way you will not be asking questions about CWS later.

Could you give me links to these other dosing strategies? This was the only definitive source I found where somebody sounded pretty confident int he dosage they used.
My calculation is that a teaspoon per 5 gallons introduced about 40mg/gallon if I remember right. And the recommendation was 25-50mg/gallon. At least, the recommendation that I saw....
I would hate to under-dose and find out later I might as well have not put anything in at all.
Of course over-dosage sounds like an equally bad or worse proposition.
I was logging on to ask one more question... are there any side effects of levamisole? It seems to have lowered all of my fishiz appetites... or maybe im just paranoid.
The tiger barbs are usually like little pirahnas in the morning when I put in flakes. The water BOILS. But this morning it's like they didn't even notice me putting them in.
The loaches last night did not seem to be eating too much, but it could be because I added a new food (krill) along w/their brine shrimp and bloodworm combo.
I just figured nobody liked the krill... but after seeing the tiger barbs not eat this morning I thought perhaps it has something to do w/the meds lowering their appetite or something.
ANYWHO... links to other dosing recommendations would be great. :\ thanks.
- Chris
My calculation is that a teaspoon per 5 gallons introduced about 40mg/gallon if I remember right. And the recommendation was 25-50mg/gallon. At least, the recommendation that I saw....
I would hate to under-dose and find out later I might as well have not put anything in at all.
Of course over-dosage sounds like an equally bad or worse proposition.
I was logging on to ask one more question... are there any side effects of levamisole? It seems to have lowered all of my fishiz appetites... or maybe im just paranoid.
The tiger barbs are usually like little pirahnas in the morning when I put in flakes. The water BOILS. But this morning it's like they didn't even notice me putting them in.
The loaches last night did not seem to be eating too much, but it could be because I added a new food (krill) along w/their brine shrimp and bloodworm combo.
I just figured nobody liked the krill... but after seeing the tiger barbs not eat this morning I thought perhaps it has something to do w/the meds lowering their appetite or something.
ANYWHO... links to other dosing recommendations would be great. :\ thanks.
- Chris
LEVAMISOLE DOSING INFO IS LACKING
The parasite FAQ has dosing listed anywhere from 20mg/gal to 80mg/gal.
It also states both that Levamisole HCL is not effective ABOVE 7.0ph, and also that its not effective BELOW 7.0ph.
So... I dunno what the deal is now.
By my calculations I've dosed about 40mg/gallon. So to say that I'm 5x too low... I dunno where you're gettin that from. :\
500ml bottle w/20somethin grams of the stuff.
= concentration of about 40g/liter
= about 40mg/ml
1 teaspoon = 5ml.
5ml = 200mg
200mg / 5 gallons = 40mg / 1 gallon.
It also states both that Levamisole HCL is not effective ABOVE 7.0ph, and also that its not effective BELOW 7.0ph.
So... I dunno what the deal is now.
By my calculations I've dosed about 40mg/gallon. So to say that I'm 5x too low... I dunno where you're gettin that from. :\
500ml bottle w/20somethin grams of the stuff.
= concentration of about 40g/liter
= about 40mg/ml
1 teaspoon = 5ml.
5ml = 200mg
200mg / 5 gallons = 40mg / 1 gallon.
pedzola, when I did levamisole treatment (40mg/gal) the fishes' appetite was effcted after 2-3 days although tiger barbs not as much as loaches. All happy & hungry 2 days after last water change. (This was after prazi/metro/? tx for some gill parasite thing. Now barb with gill thing showing neurologic probs & clown loach with 1 red gill is now very thin & always hungry. So I may lose both anyway) I gave the levamisole to all tanks "just in case" so I'm not sure it did anything. Glad your clown is improving.
Nancy
Nancy

Re: LEVAMISOLE DOSING INFO IS LACKING
I'm not saying that you are wrong, only that make sure you are not.pedzola wrote: By my calculations I've dosed about 40mg/gallon. So to say that I'm 5x too low... I dunno where you're gettin that from. :\
Incidentally, the article on Levamisole in one of the popular fish magazine in May advocated about 1/2 of the dosing comparing to the FAQ here and cited possible damage to the fish. It also stated that the pH<7.0 requirement is an urban legend.
As for the FAQ errors, they really need to be fixed. Perhaps, when you are done, you'll make a Wiki on Levamisole.
Last edited by mikev on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Nancy, sorry if I'm a little thick but I'm not quite sure I understood the points in your post.
The loaches appetites were affected only AFTER 2-3 days of treatment? Affected in the sense that they stopped eating much a couple days after adding levamisole hcl? And then a couple days after removing the meds they are back to normal. Is that correct?
Sorry to hear about your sick fish. Perhaps the sick clown needs another dose of levamisole, or maybe it is actually bacterial problem?
Eating is a good sign, at least. I would hate to lose any of my fish.
My white-headed clown is pretty much back to normal.
The only bad thing now is that none of my clowns ever come out of their hiding spots!
I feel like I'm encouraging this "bad" behaviour tho, by squirting frozen food into their caves with a baster.
I do this because if I dump it into the water, every last piece will be eaten by the tiger barbs before it ever hits the gravel! The poor loaches would starve.
But at the same time, they are probably happy to never leave thier little caves because they get room service in there!
The loaches appetites were affected only AFTER 2-3 days of treatment? Affected in the sense that they stopped eating much a couple days after adding levamisole hcl? And then a couple days after removing the meds they are back to normal. Is that correct?
Sorry to hear about your sick fish. Perhaps the sick clown needs another dose of levamisole, or maybe it is actually bacterial problem?
Eating is a good sign, at least. I would hate to lose any of my fish.
My white-headed clown is pretty much back to normal.
The only bad thing now is that none of my clowns ever come out of their hiding spots!
I feel like I'm encouraging this "bad" behaviour tho, by squirting frozen food into their caves with a baster.
I do this because if I dump it into the water, every last piece will be eaten by the tiger barbs before it ever hits the gravel! The poor loaches would starve.
But at the same time, they are probably happy to never leave thier little caves because they get room service in there!

I had done 3 doses every other day & the fish didn't lose their appetite until after the second dose. The after the 3 treatments I did a final water change & it took another day or 2 for them to get back to normal. You had asked if anyone noticed that effect & my answer was yes. Did you just do 1 dose? I mentioned using the prazi combo because you had used prazi too, at least breifly. I waited a week between the prazi & levamisole to let the fish (& water) recover before giving the other drug. I thought it may have added to the side effects since I don't remember if anyone else mentioned it & I read all the LOL archives for dosages etc.
As for my fish I'll probably have to euthanize the tiger barb but I'm still hoping the loach will gain weight before trying something else. Unfortunately my q'tank is occupied right now & I don't really want to kill all the bacteria & stress all the healthy fish unless I need to. He is 1 of my smallest clowns but not "skinny" until after worm treatments. I'm not sure how long it might take him to regain the weight, it's only been 2 or 3 weeks I think. His color is better & I don't think he's losing any more.
I bet your loaches will be back out soon if they don't get to used to "room service" worms.
Nancy
As for my fish I'll probably have to euthanize the tiger barb but I'm still hoping the loach will gain weight before trying something else. Unfortunately my q'tank is occupied right now & I don't really want to kill all the bacteria & stress all the healthy fish unless I need to. He is 1 of my smallest clowns but not "skinny" until after worm treatments. I'm not sure how long it might take him to regain the weight, it's only been 2 or 3 weeks I think. His color is better & I don't think he's losing any more.
I bet your loaches will be back out soon if they don't get to used to "room service" worms.
Nancy

Well I am continuing my heavy maintenance of the tank.
Fish weren't eating still last night so I did a water change of about 40-50%. The tiger barbs were also swimming along the bottom only - very strange behavior for them, because they are usually middle-top dwelling fish.
This morning they still weren't eating and the barbs were still at the bottom... so I did another largeish water change, and also vaccuumed the gravel during this change pretty well. Reorganized the tank a bit and cleaned the decor while I was at it.
I haven't replaced the meds after water changes last night or this morning. I will probably wait another couple days before doing more meds.
Unfortunately the yoyos are still scratching.
So now I'm at a loss. I dunno what is wrong w/them!
I will give the levamisole a 2nd treatment and leave it in for 2 days instead of one. I will do this in a couple of days.
If that doesn't work I might try another round of the ich meds. *shrug* I dunno. Poor fish.
In any case I'm gonna just try to keep the water as clean as i can over the next couple days and observe carefully.
Fish weren't eating still last night so I did a water change of about 40-50%. The tiger barbs were also swimming along the bottom only - very strange behavior for them, because they are usually middle-top dwelling fish.
This morning they still weren't eating and the barbs were still at the bottom... so I did another largeish water change, and also vaccuumed the gravel during this change pretty well. Reorganized the tank a bit and cleaned the decor while I was at it.
I haven't replaced the meds after water changes last night or this morning. I will probably wait another couple days before doing more meds.
Unfortunately the yoyos are still scratching.
So now I'm at a loss. I dunno what is wrong w/them!
I will give the levamisole a 2nd treatment and leave it in for 2 days instead of one. I will do this in a couple of days.
If that doesn't work I might try another round of the ich meds. *shrug* I dunno. Poor fish.
In any case I'm gonna just try to keep the water as clean as i can over the next couple days and observe carefully.
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