Q: Treating tail rot

[doglover_50]

Yaa'l,

I have a loach/catfish tank with several fish that have developed tail rot. I've noted it in one clown loach, two glass (ghost) catfish, and very significant in my gold nugget pleco.

I have my 20g hospital tank up and ready.
Question: What antibiotic (or specific brand/type of antibiotic) do you like?
I'm leaning Maracyn-II, but only because I have some on hand. I also have Maracyn-I.

I'm assuming (unlike copper treatment) that I do dose the antibiotic at 100% strength?

Thanks!
Doglover in Arizona

Thoughts?

[Diana]

Hi doglover,
Fin (tail) rot is often triggered by poor water quality, especially high nitrates, and/or ammonia. I would treat the main tank with water changes to be sure that it is as good as possible. Get the nitrates well under 20 ppm, under 10 ppm if at all possible.

Fin rot is often caused by bacteria, Flavobacteria columaris is one common cause.

Here is a treatment schedule based on using Maracyn and Maracyn II in combination.

1) Set up Q-tank with some cycled filter media (but no carbon), very good water flow, and aeration. You can use all new water if the GH, KH, TDS and pH match the current tank. Gravel is optional, and a bare bottom is easier to clean. Hiding places for the fish are good. You will need a light to monitor how the fish are doing, but you will leave the light off most of the time (it degrades one of the Maracyns)
2) Put fish in when the temperature is stable. If the tank temp is higher than 76*F then lower the Q-tank temperature by 1*F per day. Flavobacteria is more active over 76*.
3) Add meds per label directions. (I think the first day is a loading dose of double the daily dose, but read the label)
4) Dose daily for 5 days. Water will cloud, this is not a problem. Water may be low in oxygen. If the fish gasp at the top then increase aeration, or lower the water level a bit so there is more splash from the filter return.
Monitor ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Do a water change if:
Ammonia> .25
Nitrite > .5 ppm (and add 1 teaspoon salt per 20 gallons)
Nitrate >10 ppm.
Re-dose the medication if you need to do a water change.

5) At the end of 5 days do 2 water changes of 50%, 12 hours apart. If the fin rot is gone, then leave the fish in Q, no meds, add carbon to the filter, and continue to monitor the fish for several more days or a week. If the fin rot is not gone, then repeat the 5 day dosing of M and MII, or switch antibiotics.
Tails may take a couple of weeks to re-grow, but the ends will look stronger, not so frayed when the bacteria is gone.

Other causes of fin rot: High Ammonia, burns the tender fins, Fish nipping at each other, or other damage to the fins that allows entrance tot he bacteria.

[doglover_50]

OK--so to back up a bit--there are the fish I noted with obvious tail rot--plus a few more that may or may not have it--probably not, but I'm not sure--fins are a small bit tattered, but no rotted.

So around 2 weeks ago, I decided to simply treat the whole 75 gallon show tank to knock it out in all the fish. Why am I dum? Because it just occured to me--I failed to remove the carbon from the filters--and shockingly--no improvement was noted. ARGH!

On the one hand--I could be sure to knock it out for all fish in the tank if I treat the show tank (in general, I would never treat the showtank for parasites--however, didn't think it would put fish at too much harm to do so with an antibiotic--and in fact, all the fish made it no problemo). The downside is--on a 75 gallon tank, the cost of the antibiotic was EXPENSIVE--takes a LOT to treat that many gallons. Around $35. bucks US, I think.

So, my question is this--is this an infection/fungus that is transferable from one fish to another? That is, if I remove the fish I am SURE have tailrot and treat them, but it is perhaps present in other fish in the tank--will it eventually return? Or to ensure I take care of it, should I retreat all the fish in the showtank, and just eat the cost of the antibiotic? I can't find an answer in this in my surfing through websites.

BTW, water quality generallly stays good in this tank (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, nitrates 10-15--I'm on well water, and it comes out of the tap with low level of nitrates), but I DID do a BIG cleaning with larger WC than normal.

Thanks!

[Diana]

Alternate treatment for a low level of fin rot, if you catch it early:
Melafix and Pimafix. Some people have had problems with certain species of fish with these meds. I would not use it for Anabantoids, for example.

Fin Rot is caused by any of several bacteria. If several fish are showing signs in the main tank then it may be needed to treat the main tank, but some antibiotics will kill the nitrifying bacteria. Treat, but have some Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra Safe Start ready to go in as soon as the antibiotics are cleared from the water. (Don't waste money on any other 'bacteria in a bottle', none of the others have the right bacteria)

Keep up the cleaning so conditions stay that good. Are some of the fish attacking the others? Sometimes fins get nipped, and this can lead the way for bacteria to invade.

[doglover_50]

Diana,

Thanks for your helpful words. After my last post, a thought entered my head--what if my API test kit is reading incorrectly. So I tried two other test kits--and sure enough, found the longer-term culprit--my nitrates were around 60. Fortunately, ammonia and nitrite (new kits) are zero, but clearly the fish have been under some signficant stress for who knows how long.

Needless to say, I did a 15 gallon WC and will continue to do so nightly until I get the nitrates reduced.

I'm curious--do you think the Maracyn-II treatment I did in the tank (approx. 3 weeks ago) could have killed the bacteria in my filters (an aquaclear and an emporer) and resulted in this nitrate spike?
DL

[Ashleigh]

The only conversion that bacteria do in the tank is ammonia to nitrite and then nitrite to nitrate, it is the nitrate that you remove via water changes.

Bacteria that break down nitrate into nitrogen and hence complete the nitrogen cycle are anaerobic (don't use oxygen), and it is not really possible to have such a system to function efficiently in an aquarium although there is a guy on oscarfish (Kmuda), that has experimented with sponges in sumps with a light flow going over them and has had some positive results.
So really they only way to remove nitrate is via water changes or add plants (you need to have a decent amount).
Nitrate increases can be caused by either high stocking, over feeding, few water changes, or even if you stir up the gunk in the gravel to muck in the water column.


Ashleigh

[chefkeith]

Did the clown loach with the white goosebumps ever get better? I've been wondering about that for about a year now.

[Diana]

I do not think the Maracyn II killed the bacteria 3 weeks ago.
If the bacteria had died you would still be seeing nitrite.
The bacteria that removes ammonia would have recovered enough by now so you would not see ammonia, though there would have been a pretty big ammonia spike just about the time the bacteria had died. Probably would have lost quite a few fish.

Just as noted above: Lots of microorganisms will remove many of the toxins, but some are up to the fishkeeper to deal with.
Keep up the water changes