Loaches with Bettas

[QueenDustBunny]

Are there any loaches that are compatible with Bettas? I think that the answer to this is probably none, but just thought I'd ask. My son wants a Betta for his room and I thought why not see if a loach is compatible. Loaches like flowing water and bettas don't. So I think I'm out of luck. let me know any thoughts. Thanks.

[poeticpyro]

loaches NEED to be kept in a large tank and they sometimes will nip fins of bettas. i've kept female bettas with mine, but all loaches must be in a group of three or more, meaning a tank larger than 10 gallons. plus loaches like "footprint" tanks, the ones with the longer bottom. so i'm guessing loaches are just out of the picture.

[Wendie]

I've kept polka dot loaches with both male and female bettas without a problem other than the loaches annoying the bettas. I currently have clowns in with some females and one male without a problem. I have a feeling they will stay there a long time since I put them in the tank as a Q tank and it's so heavily planted that I can't catch them without tearing up an old established tank. Dumb move on my part.

[QueenDustBunny]

The tank I was looking at was either a 6.6L or a 10. It'll be at least 2 weeks before we get it running and stocked (plus he has to earn the privledge of having one first). Thank you for your help.

[mikev]

Are there any loaches that are compatible with Bettas? I think that the answer to this is probably none, but just thought I'd ask. My son wants a Betta for his room and I thought why not see if a loach is compatible. Loaches like flowing water and bettas don't. So I think I'm out of luck. let me know any thoughts. Thanks.

Kuhli?

[angelfish83]

I don't think you should put loaches in a tank that doesn't have a good two feet of running room. My friend has a very very very beautiful histrionica in a 10 Gallon and it has lived there since it was a little yellow sliver. Its freakin huge now like almost five inches- a beautiful fish. Its not my tank- id have more than one...

Some might say a ten gallon is ok- Im not really the authority. There is someone on this board by the name of Martin who pretty much knows everything humanity has accumulated relating to loaches and he could tell you for sure.

As far as it bothering the bettas I dont really think its going to be a big deal- especially if you get a plakatt betta (much prettier)

-not to talk you out of bettas but have you considered any of the other gouramis? They aren't necessarily harder to take care of- remember, even bettas do need a filter. They can live without one but anyone will tell you a filter is much better. If you put it in a corner of the tank with a bunch of plastic plants infront of it the current in the tank is negligible.

If you could manage a 2 foot or so aquarium , say a fifteen gallon, and have the current more intense along the bottom but not so much at the top that would be perfect. If your filter setup doesn't allow for this, even still you will be ok if you simply provide a nice peaceful area with lots of standing and floating plants for the betta to go in. They will naturally reduce the current. If you did that and added maybe 3 polkadot (kubotai) loaches maybe more maybe five - it depends what else you want in there, you'd be good. They seem quite mild mannered. Also they dont get all that big.

I was also going to suggest you check out Macropodus obercularis- the paradise fish (Blue paradise- there are also black, spiketailed etc) it is a very hardy fish and more entertaining than a betta. They are similarly ill tempered though and Im not sure how theyd mix with loaches. An even better suggestion is Trichogaster trichopterus the three spot gourami, also known as the blue, gold, cosby, and opaline gourami. They reach just over four inches and need atleast a 24" tank but are relatively peaceful. They are also in the same family as the betta.

A more peaceful fish like this would allow you to mix in all kinds of other fish, like some larger tetras or perhaps some barbs and of course loaches.

If you're just going for the super simple route- I suggest a fifteen gal, very modestly decorated, a heater (if you live in an area where you cant sustain 79 or 80 F or so )(even bettas really do need that warmer water). and youre good to go with the betta and some loaches. Do check out the plakatts though. Crowntails also seem to suffer from less drag than do the veiltail bettas so they would be able to better evade any menacing loaches.

If loaches dont work for you- Corys might work... theres options. come back and ask us. fish nerds like to help other fish nerds and aspiring fish nerds

[AneesasMuse]

I really don't see loaches getting along that great with a Betta. I have both, and I breed Bettas... both long finnage (Halfmoon, Crowntail, Doubletail) and the Plakad, (or Plakat, ie. short finnage). My loaches have either severely harassed my bettas or they've been severely harassed by my bettas... either way, not good.
Cories are better tank mates for Bettas... either gender, actually. And then, keep in mind that fish are like people... they have their own individual personalities and what one may tolerate, the next one may not.
And yes, Bettas can manage without filters or heaters, but they won't thrive in that environment. Slow to no moving water at a steady temp of 78 to 80 or 80 to 82 (this higher range for Crowntails and young bettas, actually) with a sponge filter (depending on size of tank) or an HOB with the intake covered in sponge or tulle (to protect delicate long finnage)... this is ideal and your betta buddy will really thrive and be happy!!

[QueenDustBunny]

Thank you Anesas for your help. If I could pick your brain for a few questions that I've heard conflicting information on.

1. Can you keep a male & female togther even when not spawning?
2. What is the optimum tank size for 1 or 2 bettas?

After reading more about bettas, I decided to add a heater and a filter for them. Plants and other decorations as well. ANy other hints you can offer?

Thanks.

[Wendie]

Bettas - I currently keep 5 females and 1 male in a 12 gallon tank with a very slow current. I have always kept the males and females together from the time they are born. I've kept as many as 4 males in with the females. They are siblings and because of that they have never known anything else. If you separate them for any length of time - even a couple hours, then there is a problem.

I've had more of a problem with fighting and fin damage on those fish that were separated. Once that is done, they want to kill each other. Females will fight too as they need to settle the pecking order.

I keep the temperature in the 75 - 78 range. Higher for breeding but if kept too high for too long, it shortens the life span. There is some talk about higher temperatures controling the male/female spawn ratio but no one is really sure.

[andyroo]

Hold the phone, folks,

Didn't she say 6 or 10 LITRE ?????

That's a fish-bowl, though they do seem to sell them little deals with mega-filters these days. They'd be great for hillstreams (i'd guess) if you were very experienced with hillstreams already and could enrich the habitat.

Either way, a beta in such a set-up... to rough of water. A loach of any sort in such a set-up without the rocket current: cruel and inappropriate.

Commit: get a nice reasonable sized tank (30-50gal) and enjoy it. A cheap second-hand set-up and a good fish-book and you'll be fine.

Andyroo

[AneesasMuse]

QueenDustBunny, I am always happy to answer betta questions

I don't advise keeping males and females together. It can be done, obviously, but you are just asking for unwelcomed trouble IMO. With the case of siblings getting along, that's a whole 'nuther situation in and of itself. And when you pick up your fish from the LFS, they are unlikely to be siblings and more likely to have been separated for growth purposes (even if they are related).
Three females in a 10g is the maximum stocking for a female only tank, simply because it allows the 'bullying' to be spread around and gives ample space for the fish to get out of each other's way.
Keeping a betta in a small container... say, a few liters or a couple gallons... is okay for a short time, but is really not ideal. You will have higher maintenance for yourself, basically... more frequent water changes are a must in a smaller tank or bowl (ie. a one gallon bowl really needs to be changed every 4 days for optimum water parameters). I'd say, get a 5g for each male or a 10g for the three females and add some plants and hidey spots. My Betta Chica tank is very active and colorful, btw.
As for temps, the lower range of temps is again... tolerable... especially if kept steady; but these fish are from very warm areas where the water is easily 80 degrees on a given day. My temp ranges have not shortened the lifespan of my fish. (On the contrary, spawning them shortens their life span tremendously.)

If you have any more questions, QueenDustBunny, please fire away. You are welcome to PM me, if you prefer.

Good Luck with your fish!!

[QueenDustBunny]

First of all, let me say sorry for the confusion about the size of the tank. 6.6g long or a 10g. I do tend to forget that when typing. I really appreciate all the help that's been given. So to keep the fish happy (and my son from driving me nuts), I believe I'll get the 10G with a divider for 2 males or a male and a female. Decorations and planting of course, with a heater, filter and airstone. If I'm missing anything, please let me know.

[AneesasMuse]

I forgot to mention one important thing before... live or silk plants are best for Bettas because plastic ones tend to be more rigid and can tear delicate long fins on the boys

Good Luck with your Betta buds!

[angelfish83]

I very strongly suggest the plant hornwort- it will make the bettas comfy as it floats on the surface, and it will grow under even a reasonably powerful desk lamp. You dont have to buy a good light if you dont want one- you can honestly get away with a 20something watt compact fluorescent (normal bulbs produce too much heat and the wrong sort of light) in a desk lamp aimed at the water surface.

The hornwort also grows fast, consumes a lot of nitrate, and some people think it produces small amounts of antibacterial/antifungal properties in the water, kind of like almond leaves

[Martin Thoene]

There is someone on this board by the name of Martin who pretty much knows everything humanity has accumulated relating to loaches and he could tell you for sure.

Are you nuts? I would NEVER profess to knowing that much and anyone who does is full of it. We're all learning every day.

However, I wouldn't keep any loach of any species in the quoted size of tank. At it's very minimal use it is a Betta tank.

I would consider as a minimum a 20 gallon with Bettas and kuhlis to be a decent and compatible mix.

Martin.