Lonely clown loach

[slick666]

Dear Forum members,

I've had a clown (zippy) for 3 months now. He is the first clown that I bought and is really how I got interested in the species. He has always been healthy, active, bops around the tank all day. All seems good.

I've tried to get him a companion 3 times and all three time the other loach has passed away. the other loaches last from 3-4 days to as long as 2 weeks but they always pass away and always very suddenly overnight. I'm trying to figure out what could be going on and why these loaches are dying.

The most confounding this is through all of the zippy still remains perfectly fine.

My last water specs
pH 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate Trace
Phosphate 0.2
Hardness 120

I'm really dumbfounded. I think I'm doing everything right. Does anyone have any ideas about what I could be missing.

Thanks
Landon

[chefkeith]

The shop that you are getting the clown loaches from may be adding salt to their tank water. If they did salt the water, then you'll probably kill the fish if you try to acclimate them too quickly. This is called osmotic shock. It may kill them within a few hours to within a few weeks.

You should get a TDS meter to test the tank and bag water that the fish came from. Check to see if the LFS is using water from another tank to fill the fish bags. This could put the fish in osmotic shock if the water is not on a central system.

[slick666]

I know they are using water from the same tank as the one that the loaches came from. They usually hold on to the fish 5 days before selling. They are working with me to help resolve the problem. The plan is to put a reserve on the most mature clown they get next and hold on to it for 5 to 10 days to make sure the fish aren't sick.

I must admit I'm a little green here but I'm not sure what a TDS measurement will tell. The way I understand it TDS is measuring dissolve solids (Total Dissolved Solids). The other acronym (LFS) I don't understand. could someone explain?

Thanks again for all your help

Landon

[mitchy8]

Where in upstate NY do you get your clowns from?

[Ashleigh]

LFS-Local fish store


Ashleigh

[mitchy8]

Was looking for a town and store name maybe? I am from NY also.

[helen nightingale]

if the TDS reading of the water in the bag the fish was in is very different from the TDS of your tank water, the new fish will find it hard to acclimatise due to osmotic shock. tat could be a reason why they are dying.

[slick666]

I go to Tropical Fish Emporium in Auburn NY. They seem to be a good outfit thats been around for a long time. They've also been helpful in working with me to solve my problem. They didn't get any clowns on last weeks shipment. hopefully they get some good mature ones this time around.

As for TDS I understand that even a difference in temperature can give you different TDS readings. I thought hardness might be a more accurate measurement. I still got more than a week before I would be looking at purchasing any fish.

thanks again

[mitchy8]

Thats where I get some of my fish. I bought 2 clowns from them a month or so ago and only one has survived. He is also really growing slow compared to my others. He has just started to really eat and hang with my others.

[helen nightingale]

As for TDS I understand that even a difference in temperature can give you different TDS readings.

although when you are comparing TDS in the fish bag, and your tank water, the temperature should be the same for each when you are acclimatising your fish.

[chefkeith]

As for TDS I understand that even a difference in temperature can give you different TDS readings.

A hardness test won't measure salt.

The TDS difference caused by temperature differences would be very little. Probably under 20 ppm. Small TDS variations isn't what I'd be looking for. I'd look for differences that can cause osmotic shock.
A tank that is being treated for ich with salt may have a TDS of around 3,500 ppm. A tank with soft water would have a TDS under a 150 ppm. You'll kill the fish if you move them from that high TDS water with salt in it to the low TDS water.

A normal LFS employee probably wouldn't know if salt is in the water or not. It's usually something that management will try to hide and if you ask them they may even lie about it. Trust no one.

Even if they do hold the fish for you for 5-10 days you still need to quarantine them for about a month when you get them home. Otherwise you put all the fish in your main tank at risk. You'll have more success as a fish keeper if you practice sound quarantine procedures.

[jwyfk]

Get these ones:

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1227982583

It says they're used to a high PH.

[slick666]

I would think these fish would have a hard time in my tank. My last PH reading was 7.6. a drop from 8.4 to 7.6 seems too extreme. I would imagine that I would have to put them in a tank with a ph of 8.4 and slowing bring the ph down over a period of time.

[chefkeith]

The clown loaches would welcome softer water. You're right though, you would have to slowly bring down the water's hardness and alkalinity.

The pH isn't what I'd be trying to match. I'd find out the kH, gH, and TDS of the water and match those numbers. Then slowly bring those down. The pH will go down also.

[slick666]

Ok, well my "hardness" (I assume kH) is 120. As far as I can tell thats generally soft water.

My follow up question is what is generally considered risky differences in:
TDS
pH
kH/gH