Help!!! Giant Danios Stressing Dojo Loaches!

[soul-hugger]

In my new 55 Gallon, there were 3 White Tetra and 2 Dojo Loaches. There aren't as of yet, a lot of decorations. I do not want to add too many fish at once, and would like to stock the tank rather slowly.

The other day, I brought home 3 Giant Danios. Please don't kill me... they were not quarantined. But they look very healthy and are being treated with Pimafix and Melafix. At the LFS they were housed with zebra danios, and every last one was in perfect visible health and very active.

I also have a 20 Gallon, from which the dojo loaches and white tetras were moved. At first I was going to put all fish in the 55 and keep the 20 as a Q-Tank. But then I found out that although my fishes were compatible for water hardness, they were not compatible for temperature, so I decided to move the dojos and gear the new tank towards them. (The tetras will have to be moved as I reduce the temperature)

I did significant research on which species prefer their water a little cooler, and Danios were at the top of the list. So, the other day, I decided to bring 3 home, (there were only 3 there), making them the first new fish to be added to the setup.

As soon as the danios entered the scene, the demeanor of my loaches changed drastically. They never felt the need to hide before, and they were very slow-moving and tame, eating out of my hands, which they still do. The danios are not being overtly aggressive as far as being mean. But they are always on the go...they just never stop! This morning one of my loaches was resting under some driftwood, and one of the danios scared him so bad he shot from his hiding place, spraying gravel behind him. Then the other loach approached him, almost to comfort him, and as soon as he touched him, he dashed away...like when someone touches you when you are stressed or hurt and you jump and pull away. Soon after I discovered him wedged underneath a large stone, with only his head and tail peeking out. I know loaches often hide in this way, but neither of them have ever done that before. The tetras don't seem to mind the overactive danios, however.

It is now becoming clear I may have made a bad decision, and I don't know what to do. It's also becoming clear I need to acquire at least one more tank for quarantine purposes. I am considering the following options:
-adding more danios, to keep them amongst themselves
-adding more hiding spots for the loaches
-separating them altogether (this will take time, as the danios are not suited to the 20Gallon, or, now, the 55 gallon, and I will not put the loaches back in the 20, subjecting them again to the stress of capture and being moved, unless I absolutely have to.)
-Returning the danios to the fish store, and waiting awhile to let the loaches settle in before adding anyone else.
-Moving all smaller fish into the 55 for now and putting the danios in the 20 by themselves until I figure out what to do. I'm not sure I want to do this either, because of the temp factor.....

Please Help!!!
Any suggestions, constructive criticism, feedback or advice would be seriously considered and much appreciated....Thank-you!

[starsplitter7]

I would add a bunch of floating plants on one side of the tank. Anacharis and hornwort. My dojos sleep in it. My danios swim below the plants and on the side of the tank without the plants. I have small danios so that probably makes a difference. I think your Dojos will adapt with times, lots of spaces to hide.

[mickthefish]

the best you could do is to ask at the shop will they take the danios back , you would have been better getting the zebras or another of the small danios.
if they're a decent shop they shouldn't mind.
always remember that large danios are gluttons for food and could unnerve more sedate species.
also if they have any rasboras they are another good choice.

mick

[soul-hugger]

Thank-you very much for your replies. I think I may try to rehome the danios. I will also take some floating plants from the 20G and put them in the 55 to see if this helps, in the meantime.

On the subject of floating plants, where do you get them? I have been using other plants to float, as I have not been able to find genuine floating ones. I'm not sure what the ones I have are, but they seem to be doing well floating, and are growing roots.

I live at least a 35-40 min. drive from the nearest pet store, and next time I go, which will most likely be tomorrow, I will buy some more wood and decor for the loaches to hide in.

[starsplitter7]

Where do you live? I am thinking the US, but I am guessing. Almost every Petsmart has plants for sale, and usually anacharia and hornwort are in stock. It grows super fast, low light and is cheap. Usually the cheapest plants you can get. If you lives close by I'd hand you a couple clumps. There's usually 5 or 6 sprigs held together by a lead weight. Take the weight off, rinse the plant well and throw it in the tank. I don't remember seeing them at Petco, although they usually have plants.

[soul-hugger]

Hello, Star-splitter...

I live in Saskatchewan, Canada, in a small town called Colonsay. The biggest city nearby is Saskatoon, (a 35-40 min. drive) and that is where I do my shopping. Unfortunately living here, there is not as much selection as you may have in the US or UK. Saskatoon is a city of about 250,000 people, but the population in Canada is probably just slightly more (about 30 Million) than that of New York State alone. There is a whole lot of space and not a whole lot of people! This is why we have a bit of a problem with selection, although we have all the same amenities as you would in the US. I'm thinking I may go to online shopping when I can't get the plants or fish locally. Have you ever ordered from online? If so, what kind of experience did you have, and what site would be the best to go to?

Thank-you
soul-hugger

[Diana]

Ditto the other suggestions to return the Danios. Whether the Danios are themselves actually pestering the Loaches or not it is not a good combination. The Dojos are seeing the active darting behavior of the Danios as if the Danios are fleeing from a predator. They think they need to hide, too.

Look around (on line) for an Aquarium Plant club, or an Aquarium club of any sort. Even a salt water club would do for a start. Someone there might also keep aquatic plants, and be able to share some.

I remember reading about Saskatoon in 'The Dog Who Wouldn't Be'.
Sounds like it has grown quite a bit!

[starsplitter7]

My family is scattered around Ontario, very heavily populated compared to the rest of Canada. My mom grew up in Shilo, Manitoba, so we know a little about being in the middle of nowhere.

I don't use online vendors, because I don't have the money at the moment, but other LOL members use them all the time. I know Franks is very popular. Wait for others to chime in with other online vendors.

I don't see that Frank's has plants, but the fish make me drool.

[soul-hugger]

Thanks for your help and suggestions!

The situation only got worse.., the stressed loach buried into the gravel under the driftwood with only his head sticking out, breathing irregularly.

I have a 1.5 gallon tank reserved for absolute emergencies, because it is so small. I wanted to avoid using it, if at all possible, but it was up and running and ready to go, so all three danios have been moved to it until tomorrow, when they will be rehomed. I am sad to have to do this, but I saw no other choice.

The difference in the loaches was immediate... I could literally see and sense their relief, and they are now out of hiding. This took a matter of a minute or two.

The danios as well, seem ok. I will be sad to let them go, but my loaches are very important to me, and seeing them in such distress was very hard to watch, and I couldn't stand it anymore. I will not be adding new fish again until they settle down.

Saskatoon has indeed grown a lot over the years. My mom grew up here, and after having lived in BC for many years, Saskatoon was in many places unrecognizable to her, whose childhood home used to overlook a field on one side, but is now in about the middle of the city. It has also swallowed up the community of Sutherland, which used to be a several minutes' drive away. That was before my time, though. In the last three years or so, Saskatchewan has been booming, and Saskatoon, in particular, has changed drastically. The price of homes has more than tripled, the rents skyrocketed, the rental homes being rapidly converted to condominiums, forcing seniors and low income families to move to the ghetto of the city, or displacing them entirely. The boom will always help some and hurt others. This is part of the reason I am in Colonsay and not Saskatoon. You can make a small fortune selling a house in that market, but people forget you have to buy one in that market too, unless you move away!

It is a very small world! Diana, I have never heard of the book you mentioned, but now I am curious, and will look it up. Starsplitter, I have relatives in Ontario as well, but I have never been to Manitoba...only flown over it to go to Ontario. Ontario is by far the most populated province in Canada.

There is an aquatic society in Saskatoon. I am an online member of it, but I have never actually been to one of its meetings, which happen at least once a month. I have been wanting to go to one, but haven't had the chance yet. I would definitely like to try it.

I am very grateful for your help and suggestions, thank-you very much

[loachmom]

Hi,

I don't know much about dojo loaches, but I believe I've read on these forums that loaches don't do well with Pimafix. That could be the problem, too.

Maybe a more experienced person could comment on that.

Hope all goes well with your fish.
edit: here is a thread that says a little about Pimafix
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... ix+loaches

[soul-hugger]

Hi, loachmom...,

I have never heard of Pimafix being bad for loaches, but now I will check it out. Last night, after I removed the danios, was the first time I have ever added a full dose, however. I have usually only added 4 tsp. when the dose is 5.5 tsp. It is a 55 Gallon tank, so the dose is pretty large.

It says on the instructions to remove activated carbon, if possible, so what I do is turn the filter off for a few minutes when I put it in. I let them sit in it for a few moments, and then turn the filter back on. Since I'm only using it as a preventative, I thought that would be enough.

I like the Pimafix and Melafix because they are natural, and because loaches don't do well with any treatments having copper. It seems they are much more sensitive than other fish. Thank-you for telling me about this,...I will check out the link you gave me. Where would we be without being able to talk openly????

Thank-you
soul-hugger

[Diana]

"The Dog Who Wouldn't Be", Farley Mowat
Probably found in the fiction section, but is something of an autobiography of his youth, focusing on the period when his family owned Mutt, a pretty interesting dog. He grew up mostly in Saskatoon during the depression, but also lived in other Canadian cities. His father was the librarian in Saskatoon for several years.
Farley Mowat grew up to become a naturalist, and wrote other books about the Canadian wilderness, such as "Never Cry Wolf". He has a fun, easy to read style that I enjoy very much.

[soul-hugger]

Hello, Diana

I am definitely familiar with Farley Mowat, and have read several of his books, though all in my childhood. I have never read The Dog Who Wouldn't Be, but now I think I will. I also remember enjoying his style. It was never difficult to finish one of his books. Perhaps I read about them living in Saskatchewan, but at that time, it would not have been significant to me because I lived in BC. My first love, before fish, was reading and writing. As a child I was a certified bookworm and I loved to write stories and poetry, still do. It looks OK on me now, but then, that made me a N_E_R_D! Oh, well, at least it's good for a laugh now!

[Diana]

I also grew up reading just about everything, and that enjoyment continues... The internet is better than a library for finding all sorts of info!

[soul-hugger]

Yes, the internet is like a mega-library, and no overdue fees!

The danios have been taken back to the store. I was able to watch them being acclimatized to their new tank and then released. They seem to be doing very well. The store owner put them in with cichlids and large silver dollars, so I guess that shows something about their behaviour. He told me they are also food hogs, so it is best if they are in with some tougher competitors. I was sad to see them go, but the loaches are much happier now. The one loach (Whiskers), has still been burrowing, though. It seems this experience ha awakened his burrowing instinct. But now when I watch him burrow, he seems a lot more content!

Thank-you to all who have replied here!
soul-hugger