Clown swimming upside down

[ey]

I noticed one of my smaller clown (2.5") swimming right at the top of the water level yesterday and although it appeared normal with no Symptoms no puffy eyes, no red gills, no white spots etc, it wasn't very responsive. It swam near my hand when I was feeding the others and when I tried catching it, it showed no resistance or did not swim away like the other clowns did. Tank is 170g.

When I checked up on him today, he was swimming upside down. Still he looks healthy though, the colour (orange) and black stripes on his body still looks very defined and sharp.

At no stage did it appear to breathe rapidly or flashed.

Water paramenter is:
0 nitrite
0 ammonia
15 nitrate
pH 6.6

The other clowns and yoyos all appear perfectly normal so I cannot figure out what the problem is or what caused this. Only thing I can think of is I might have overfed the loaches on bloodworms a few days ago (fed slightly more than normal) or the yoyos ghosting the clowns.

Has anyone experienced this with their clowns?

[Diana]

Clowns are willing to swim at almost any orientation, though generally they are found right-side-up. The lethargy, and non-reaction when you had your ahnd in the water is more worrisome, and, combined with odd-orientation swimming does suggest a problem, Is this fish bloated? This might be a clue that perhaps he ate too many bloodworms.
A constipated fish usually hangs around the bottom, though, not up-side-down near the top.

[ey]

Clowns are willing to swim at almost any orientation, though generally they are found right-side-up. The lethargy, and non-reaction when you had your ahnd in the water is more worrisome, and, combined with odd-orientation swimming does suggest a problem, Is this fish bloated? This might be a clue that perhaps he ate too many bloodworms.
A constipated fish usually hangs around the bottom, though, not up-side-down near the top.

I know what you mean by clowns swimming in all sorts of directions given their uncanny nature, however the way this little one has been swimming does look unusual. For one, it is swimming as fast as the other, almost like a slow motion swim with lethargy as you pointed out.

It isn't bloated when I saw it yesterday or today, but each time I've been feeding the clowns the big chunk bloodworms, the 12 smaller clowns (between 2.5" - 3") have been eating more than their fair share compare to the other bigger clowns (4"+) so they would always be bloated after feeding. However, a few hours later the bloating will go away, and they will be hungry again....not sure if this means they have digested or what not.

This little clown also hung around the bottom of the tank for periods of the time when it isn't swimming upside down or swimming at the top. It doesn't look like it is going to make it though.

[Diana]

The plump tummies right after a meal is fine, and yes, the food is moving along the digestive tract as you see the bulge shrinking.

I have no idea, then what might be wrong.

Most fish use their swim bladder to maintain position, higher or lower in the water. When the fancy (distorted) goldfish get swim bladder issues they can be found up-side-down, unable to right themselves. I do not know if Clown Loaches can have similar issues (Up-side-down when there is a swim bladder problem).
Diseases can affect the swim bladder in all fish. The problem is treating it. Since there is no way of knowing if it is bacterial, viral or other, it is difficult to know what to treat the fish with. You might put this guy in a quarantine tank and start some antibiotics (bacterial issues) but by the time the fish is as bad off as you are describing the internal damage might be too much to heal.

Some fish fight by ramming into each other. This can cause swim bladder damage, too, in some species.

[Ashleigh]

So basically the clown is just lethargic and unresponsive? Is it any thinnner than the other clown loach you have? Does it feed well, or is it not capable competing with the other clown loach?

Right now Im thinking internal parasites might be a possibility, but if you have treated for that I have no idea

I would second Diana's suggestion of putting the clown in a quarantine tank and start some antibiotics and just hope the treatement works.

Hope the little guy pulls through for you


Ashleigh

[ey]

The plump tummies on the smaller 2.5" clowns has been the case for the last 6 months now since I got them so I wouldn't think that would be the cause of the problem.

When I last checked on the clown yesterday and today, it was still swimming upside down in a circular pattern (picture a ferris wheel) and seemed to have little to no energy as evidenced when the other clowns and yoyos would swim past it, creating a mini current and this little clown would just float through it.....also noticed some yoyos trying to nip at it, perhaps wanting to eat it once it dies? It was a not a good sight.

On the topic of swim bladder damage, this could be caused by the clowns darting (sudden burst of speed) into an ornament or driftwood. The clowns are still skittish and sometimes when I approach the tank they would dart back into their 'hideouts' and half the time because they dart so fast, they inevitably 'slam' into a driftwood quite hard and fast so I'm not sure if this attributes to any damage.

I already treated the batch of bably clowns when I got them six months ago (they were only 1" then) for internal parasites before adding them.

The plump tummies right after a meal is fine, and yes, the food is moving along the digestive tract as you see the bulge shrinking.

I have no idea, then what might be wrong.

Most fish use their swim bladder to maintain position, higher or lower in the water. When the fancy (distorted) goldfish get swim bladder issues they can be found up-side-down, unable to right themselves. I do not know if Clown Loaches can have similar issues (Up-side-down when there is a swim bladder problem).
Diseases can affect the swim bladder in all fish. The problem is treating it. Since there is no way of knowing if it is bacterial, viral or other, it is difficult to know what to treat the fish with. You might put this guy in a quarantine tank and start some antibiotics (bacterial issues) but by the time the fish is as bad off as you are describing the internal damage might be too much to heal.

Some fish fight by ramming into each other. This can cause swim bladder damage, too, in some species.

[ey]

It is not thinner than the other clown loaches in the same size as him or from the same clowns I got at the same time with him.

At the moment, it is so lethargic that it is struggling to swim properly so it has not had a chance to compete for food.

What sort of antibiotics can I use?

A year ago, I had another 4" clown experience a similar problem, where he was swimming near the top levels of the tank 90% of the time and was lethargic. He didn't die though and after a few weeks, he appeared to swim/eat normal again and has now completely recovered. Only difference was he also went skinny when he had the problem.

So basically the clown is just lethargic and unresponsive? Is it any thinnner than the other clown loach you have? Does it feed well, or is it not capable competing with the other clown loach?

Right now Im thinking internal parasites might be a possibility, but if you have treated for that I have no idea

I would second Diana's suggestion of putting the clown in a quarantine tank and start some antibiotics and just hope the treatement works.

Hope the little guy pulls through for you


Ashleigh

[Diana]

If you can get a medicated food this would likely be the best. Then flavor it with fresh garlic and see if he will eat this way.

Crush the garlic and soak the food in the juice, then feed a little garlic as well as the medicated food. Other tempting foods (from a Clown Loach point of view) are snails, bloodworms, most other meaty foods such as earth worms, shellfish, mosquito larvae, brine shrimp...

A wide range antibiotic would be best, perhaps kanamycin, though there are others. Have a look at what is available in your LFS.

Without really knowing what is really the problem it is difficult to say what to do.
However, difficulty competing for food is definitely reason to put the poor little guy in a Q-tank. With no competition he can eat at his leisure.

Which anti-parasite medicine did you use? There are several types of internal parasites, and they are susceptible to different meds. Any single medicine does not kill all the possible internal parasites. If you used a rotation of at least 2 active ingredients, then you are most likely to have controlled most of the parasites, and the healthy growth of the other Loaches also suggests that the medicines did their job.

[chefkeith]

Have you quarantined this fish? If not you should get in the habit of quarantining all sick, injured, or unhealthy looking fish..