Golden Dojo Loach -- failure to grow, breathing rapidly

[psessoms]

Hello folks!

I love this forum; you are all so knowledgeable and helpful. I read often and can usually find answers by searching the forum archive and website, but right now, I find I need to post a question.

I purchased 3 golden dojo loaches from PetsMart a few months ago. At that time, two were slightly larger than the third, but they all seemed healthy and were put in my main tank after a two week quarantine.

They are in a 6 foot long, 100 gallon heavily planted tank:

ph 6.8
ammonia zero
nitrite zero
nitrate about 5 ppm
temp approx 75

Anyway, that littlest guy has a certain "failure to thrive," it seems. He just hasn't grown very much, if at all, while the other two are growing rapidly in all dimensions. The little guy eats but is not as active as the other two. He does not flash or rub on objects like he itches, and I see no spots on his skin or fins.

The only thing I can see that may be visibly wrong with him is his breathing. He breathes about twice as fast as the other two dojos. He does not pant at the surface, and he makes the occasional run to the top for a gulp of air like is normal with these guys. I can't really tell if his gill covers are swollen.

I tried to take a video of him. When I put it on You Tube, it got too blurry to be very helpful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRdWtWNOvc

So, I uploaded the avi file to yousendit. This file is big, 56.4 MB. Sorry. It is more clear than the other one, though, if anyone has the patience to view it:

https://download.yousendit.com/Q01FeUNFdkc1aVlLSkE9PQ

Ideas? I've considered Levimasole, since he is not growing like he should be, but that does not treat gill flukes, which I am afraid he may have. Can internal parasites cause them to breathe rapidly like this?

Everyone else is very healthy. There are breeding white clouds and pearl gouramis in the tank.

Thanks for your time and for any advice!

Best wishes,
-Pam.

[soul-hugger]

Hello, Pam

I love dojo loaches, they are my favourite fish. They are true pets, and I don't blame you for feeling worried. I am not an expert, but I can tell you as much as I do know.

Most loaches do not breed well in captivity, and so most are wild-caught, meaning they bring with them whatever they picked up in the wild.

You might want to try researching CWS, or Chronic Wasting Syndrome. In the book Loaches, written by many of the wonderful people on this site, it talks about batches of fish where one does not grow like the others. it is then that CWS may be a suspect. Another possibility could be internal parasites. In these cases you would see them eating normally, but not growing like the rest. I would be out of my league to say too much more, but others will be along to offer more suggestions.

I hope all turns out well, you are certainly in the right place!
soul-hugger

[psessoms]

soul-hugger,

Thank you so much for your kind message. Dojos are wonderful little guys.

Your tip about CWS (chronic wasting syndrome) is very helpful. I'd somehow missed this name for it and had been searching for "skinny disease" and variations on that. I found some new messages thanks to this new name.

I'll order a copy of the book asap.

Are the gold dojos typically wild caught? I was figuring that since they're an odd color they're probably captive bred. I suppose this probably doesn't make much difference regarding the possible parasite load the fish carry, since even if they are captive reared, they probably share water and facilities with wild caught fish.

I am currently thinking that it may be best to go ahead with the Levimasole, in case that helps. I don't know if internal parasites can cause this rapid breathing. Is this perhaps just a non-specific "sick fish" sign general?

Does anyone know if gill flukes are at all likely, or if there is some other logical cause? Since Levimasole does not treat them, I don't want to miss the real problem. I also don't want to start hammering the little guy with too many medications all at once.

Someone commented on the You Tube video that it looked like stress, probably from a too-small tank. Again, it is 100 gallons, six feet long, heavily planted. I doubt this is too small, but if it is, please let me know. I want these guys to be happy.

Best wishes to all,

-Pam.

[soul-hugger]

Your tank is definitely not too small. I have mine in a 4-ft. 55 gallon, and they are happy in this size too.

I'm pretty sure gill flukes are an external parasite that you may or may not be able to see. I have also seen one of my loaches breathing very rapidly when he was under extreme stress. I had bought 3 Giant Danios that were way too active and scared my loaches to the point that their immune systems were compromised. One in particular was not doing well, I had never seen him hide in the gravel before this time. He was hiding with only his head visible, his gills flaring widely. Even though I returned the danios to the LFS, he ended up getting ich. The ich parasite gains a hold when fish are stressed, and before they are visible, they attach themselves in the fish's gills. I ended up having to treat the whole tank for ich, and I'm happy to say all loaches are feeling much better and the ich has been gone for about 3 weeks.

In your case I would watch for ich, but because your little guy also isn't growing, I would first treat for CWS. You probably already know this, but you have to be very careful when it comes to treating any loaches with medication. They are very sensitive to copper and some other medications that other fish can handle. There is a very good section on this site that talks about medications. I don't know how to post a link, but if you look for it, I'm sure you'll find it easily.

Please let me know how things go and don't be afraid to ask questions here

The loach book is called: Loaches: A Natural History and Aquarium Care. For the author it just says "Written for Aquarists by Aquarists.". I ordered mine from Indigo Chapters. It took almost a month to come in, but I finally got it. Well worth owning for anyone who has loaches.

soul-hugger

[psessoms]

Hello folks,

OK, this evening, he was draped in some java ferns at a new angle, allowing me to see his underside a bit.

While I could not see actual worms hanging from his vent as has been reported at times, his vent is larger and redder than I think it should be.

He also has this weird translucent bubble type thing in front of his vent. I've tried to photograph it without a lot of luck, but here is the best attempt.



I hope you can see that... It's like a clear pocket of fluid, with a red vein (or something) running through it.

Here is a closeup. That shiny greenish vertical streaking is on the glass, not the fish.



I believe his breathing is slower today than it was yesterday, which seems good. But this bubble thing is worrisome.

I think this points even more strongly towards doing the Levamisole. Does that sound reasonable?

Best wishes,
-Pam.

[inkmaker]

The bubble may be swelling due to irritation to Camallanus infestation or some other parasite. The wasting of the fish is probably due to Protozoa in the gut irritating it so much the fish can't swallow. It's very much a crap shoot **!?*#!

Are there any other fish in the tank showing either of these symptoms?

Charles H

[psessoms]

There are no other fish in the tank showing these signs. The other two dojos are growing incredibly rapidly and eat like pigs. The dojos are the most recently introduced.

Thank you so much for you honest advice that the meds are a crap shoot. Is it safe to treat for Camallanus and Protozoa at the same time?

Thanks thanks thanks!

-Pam.

[inkmaker]

Treat them both at the same time? Well, Flubendazole is the most broad spectrum of them all. And it will treat both but not as effectively as the Levamisole and not as targeted. It kills snails and must be watched. It does take Oxygen from the water. It has a large difference in water/temp solubilities. It will cloud water that drops in temp about 5 F degrees. Much better to use it in large doses in a smaller tank - about 10 gallons if possible.


Charles H

| Nope, no one else is like this; it's always been a really healthy tank
| (it's been established for three years, with many of the residents
| coming from another tank that had been established for four years).
| The dojos are the most recent additions.
|
| THANKS!
|
| -Pam.

[psessoms]

For anyone following along, Charles and I have been also corresponding a bit in private e-mail.

The plan is to move this little guy into a smaller treatment tank and use Flubenzadole. I'll be able to observe him more closely this way, since the big tank is so densely planted it's hard to spot this guy at all times; also, it'll be a lot easier to handle the treatment in the smaller tank.

http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdf

Cross your fingers! I hope this little guy makes it.

Best wishes,
-Pam.

[soul-hugger]

Seeing that your loach has a lump adds a whole new dimension. This may help you to narrow your choices when it come to medicating him. I'm very sorry... this is beyond my range of experience. I would not feel safe to reccommend any medications, but I'm sure there's someone who will. I have seen lumps on fish before in my LFS but never on my own fish. I have also read that sometimes a fish can have a lump and though it may be due to a disease it is not highly contagious. That the lump is right next to his vent I find suspicious though. This does seem to point to some kind of parasite. You are lucky your little guy ended up in that position. I had my loaches for a long time before I ever really got a good look at their undersides. It is funny and entertaining to see some of the strange positions your loaches will put themselves in. Mine also sometimes sleep draped in the plants this way, but now the two bigger ones are getting too heavy for this!

I tried researching the gold dojo but didn't have much luck in finding out whether they are a regular variety or a cultivated one. I have also seen pictures of white weather loaches with black spots, but I think these are quite rare. I would like my next weather loaches to be one of these two varieties.

Just keep up with observation, research, and posting here. I'm sure you will find a solution.

soul-hugger

[psessoms]

Hello folks,

I'm sorry to report that this little dojo died yesterday in the quarantine tank. There simply had not yet been time to receive the meds (they were shipped priority asap), and with death happening so soon, I was probably too late anyway.

After death, I could not see any evidence of "the bubble." An area of redness was visible on the ventral abdomen around and forward of the vent, appearing like an area of irritation under the skin.

I opened the fish up after death to see if the plump abdomen was full of worms and was very surprised to see what appeared to be eggs. This was a small dojo, not quite 4 inches. Is it normal for a dojo this small to have had eggs?

Her belly had become kind of "lumpy," in that while appearing plump, it was like the distribution was a bit uneven. I do not have any skills in fish anatomy or disease, so I don't know if anything else was notable.

Picture below -- keep scrolling -- I'm just leaving some buffer space to try to spare anyone squeamish from accidentally seeing a gruesome photo.

So, stop scrolling now if you don't want to see the insides of this poor little dojo girl.

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In the end, I don't know if the cause of her death was parasites, protozoan infection, other infection, or if she was simply stunted and the eggs were squeezing her GI tract so much that she could not eat. It will remain a mystery, most likely.

Thank you all for your help!

Best wishes,
-Pam.

[shari2]

Sorry to hear about her passing, Pam.
Thanks for taking a post mortem look. It may well have been egg related as you saw no worms, but a microscope would have been helpful there.

And, hi Charles!
Nice to see you here.

[inkmaker]

I wanted to let everyone know that Levamisole HCl IS HERE & AVAILABLE.
I have a large quantity on hand and it is available for aquarium use.
Go to my Fish page: http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/

send me an email charles@inkmkr.com

Now that it is going to be used for human treatment of various cancers, it won't be a very popular Veterinarian drug. It is going to be difficult to find for Aquarium Use.

Charles Harrison