Loach News in Toronto

[Martin Thoene]

Sometimes I despair. I've been on LOL since September 1998 and the sum total of knowledge of these fish has been available via the Internet in ever increasing depth to date. However, there's still a huge amount of misconception going on out there and some of it's being perpetuated by the trade itself.

I was in a local branch of Big Als and also Petsmart yesterday.

The BA's was rather well appointed in loaches although most were new arrivals and not yet for sale. I saw Skunks, Zippers, Y. modesta, Sewellia lineolata (with some Spotties mixed in......might have to return ), Golden Dojos, and Yoyos.

What annoyed me were multiple tanks of small Clowns, one of which had proclaimed in red marker something along the lines of "Clown Loaches are ideal for snail removal as they are their natural food". I can see poor Clowns being purchased purely as a task fish and not getting specifically fed

Another tank, again marked with red marker "Hong-Kong Plecos are great for Goldfish tanks".....on close inspection I discovered a couple of Pseudogastromyzon cheni

I have to say that the Sewellia had two powerheads pumping good in their tank. Obviously someone there knows that insufficient oxygenation will be a killer.

In one of their large tanks that house larger fish and often become homes for fish returned because they got too big there were 6 of the biggest Y. modesta I've ever seen. The largest was a good 6" standard length.

On a bottom row tank I saw a sign "Two Clown Loaches Sold". I looked in and saw one 3" Clown. It's eyes and head were covered in a grey film. It looked very sick indeed. Couldn't see the other one. I find it hard to conceive that anyone would buy a fish that looked like this, let alone a shop selling it

I moved on to my local Petsmart. Here, they have several tanks marked "The Loach in this tank is not for sale. It is there for snail control".
Each of these tanks contained a rather sad looking and skinny lone Clown.
Also, every one of their tropical tanks contains a single goldfish. I'd love to know what the thinking is behind that one?

Life can be so frustrating

Enough eye R LLING, rant over.

Martin.

[newshound]

just down in toronto
dario, kubs, mods and sids at one big als.
also a 6 or 7 inch clown for $50 at big als in barrie

[Doc]

Did you say something to them Martin.. I know I would. I mentioned to one of the staff at my local shops the other day when they were selling the smallest, skinniest Sidths I have ever seen. They were about 10mm SL and 2-3mm deep and wide. I've seen bigger newborn livebearer fry.. Their response was "that was what came in - we have no choice really" ... Shame.

[Martin Thoene]

No, I didn't say anything. I tend to be a little shy in that regard. I think I should carry a copy of the book with me. At least if I meet resistance or disbelief I can do a "have you seen this?" number on them and then show them my driver's licence

By the way, I've never seen "Loaches" on the shelves in any branch of either establishments.

More ammo.....

http://www.loaches.com/articles/Hillstream%20Flyer.pdf

http://www.loaches.com/articles/images/ ... poster.pdf

Petsmart is a different ball-game. Previous dealings with this branch have been met with a kind of corporate stance on the whole deal, whatever it is. It seems they have company policies. The Goldfish thing seems only to be at this branch though. The goldfish in these tanks all look sleek and healthy and have all grown immensely in the few weeks since they appeared. I think they're eating most of the food that goes in the tanks

Martin.

[Martin Thoene]

Oh....and another thing.......... .........how come identical sized Misgurnus anguilicaudatus sell for anything between CDN$9.95 in one shop to CDN$1.98 (every day) in Walmart?

I was in the Wallys Superstore the other day and a new batch of really nice ones had arrived.......soooooo tempting. This is one species I've never kept and at this bargain-basement price only tank space is holding me back.

Walmart you are evil.

Martin.

[mickthefish]

trouble with opening your gob at these places is they can just bar you from coming in, a mate of mine has been barred from at least 6 shops that i know of for this.
i just say i would go near them with a barge pole as they'll be dead before the week is out, and follow it up with thats your profit gone down the drain.

mick

[oilhands]

Did you say something to them Martin.. I know I would. I mentioned to one of the staff at my local shops the other day when they were selling the smallest, skinniest Sidths I have ever seen. They were about 10mm SL and 2-3mm deep and wide. I've seen bigger newborn livebearer fry.. Their response was "that was what came in - we have no choice really" ... Shame.

The last time this feeling came over me I took a deep breath....and just walked away. The staff on duty were all under 20 and they were being pulled six ways to Sunday by the customers. The 3" drift of gasping feeder Goldfish at the bottom of their tank bothered me a great deal, but the kids in charge wouldn't be able to address the problem. The problem was institutional and no chin jawing on my part was going to help. The only thing opening my mouth would have done was upset folks who were utterly powerless to change what was obviously a business decision made much further up the food chain.

The only way to effect change with these guys is to steer clear and advise others to do the same. Contacting the company headquarters and expressing this intent would be much more worth your time than focusing on the peons and drones. Having said that, independent fish shops and franchise stores might be more answerable to your concerns if you can talk to the folks who will lose money when you take your business elsewhere.

I have no idea what folks can do if they have no choice but to use a chain store because no local independent stores exist where they live.

The 'funny' thing is the reaction of customers. Would folks ever come back to a store if kittens or puppies were treated with such callous disregard by the staff or the organization?

[starsplitter7]

Unfortunately, in my area, in the last year many of the independent LFS have gone under. Augh! There are a couple left.

I am lucky. One of the independent LFS is actually connected to a very large, reputable fish farms in Florida. So I can go in and request fish. They will order them. They get in the largest, nicest fish I have ever seen at the same prices as other stores, or less.

[bslindgren]

Did you say something to them Martin.. I know I would. I mentioned to one of the staff at my local shops the other day when they were selling the smallest, skinniest Sidths I have ever seen. They were about 10mm SL and 2-3mm deep and wide. I've seen bigger newborn livebearer fry.. Their response was "that was what came in - we have no choice really" ... Shame.

I have tried to tell employees to correct faulty information, but I've concluded they (the Emma'sof this world are few and far between, unfortunately) aren't really interested. They want to sell fish, and with a few notable exceptions, they care little about accuracy. Perhaps it's not intentional, but rather a function of hiring staff at rock-bottom salaries. The LFSs in PG have a scary turnover - on occasion you get someone good looking after the fish, but these people invariably find better-paying jobs, and you're back to people who just need a job, but don't really care to educate themselves. I assume the specialty stores like Big Als are better on average, so perhaps this applies mainly to the stores that focus on pet food. But I have pretty much given up commenting on the tiny, starving clown loaches that are being sold everywhere. I feel your pain, Martin. I'm a relative newbie when it comes to loaches, so it must be that much more frustrating for you!

[chris1932]

I find myself going in to less and less stores because of this. I am lucky that one store in Maryland has a quintet of giant clown in a 265. In the tanks that have small clowns for sale there is a picture of the giants sitting on a yard stick. It says I get THHHHIIIISSSSS BIIIGGGG
A store here in Pa lists water conditions and accurate max sizes.
The other 20 or so are the pits.

Hi Martin! Long time no see.

Chris

[Emma Turner]

Chris, great to see you here again! Do you still have your loach tanks?

Martin, sorry to hear the terrible situation with most of the shops where you are, it makes me so sad.

In the tanks that have small clowns for sale there is a picture of the giants sitting on a yard stick. It says I get THHHHIIIISSSSS BIIIGGGG

That sounds similar to what I have on display underneath the clown loach stock tanks in our shop. I don't order them in any smaller than 2.75" either.



Emma

[Doc]

I think your excellent standards have spoiled other shops Emma, and I still haven't got round to visiting yet.
The shop I was on about earlier is one of the better shops in the UK and are normally very good (although they won't let me buy any of the Loaches from their main display tank ). Lately though the Loaches they have been getting in are getting smaller and smaller and if I were to guess I'd say they were no more than a month to two months old at most. They had some really nice Histrionica that were labelled as Kubs but at only 15-20mm SL far too young to buy.

[Martin Thoene]

Hi Martin! Long time no see.

Chris

Hey man! I saw this the other day and wondered where you were at.



Martin.

[chris1932]

Ive been around. Work has been really busy, between that, working on other peoples cars, driving the roadster like I stole it and the fishroom breeding projects there hasnt been much free time.
I have had some new loach spawns here and there but nothing to shout about. I notice activity but they are getting their buisness done in the dark. I revamped the river tank a few months ago and after removing everything I had more of each loach than what I counted on the last pulldown. Including 2 smallish Confuzona. When I say small there are 17 large adults ' 3" 'that were inventoried then the tank about a year and a half ago. Now there are two that are just under an inch and I didnt put them there. The Sumo population tripled.
I am trying to figure when and how all this happened. I would like to dedicate a slightly smaller environment to both fish and make an attempt at duplicating the spawns so they can be documented.
I have an idea about how to save the eggs from marauding parents.
Sewellia have proved to be an easy spawner and when I want more of either species I breed them like you would tetras.

[soul-hugger]

Hello, Martin..,

I can definitely understand your frustration. It can be very difficult to know what to do when you see fish that are suffering. It is possible if you say something, they may act, but they also may not, and that can end up being even more hurtful. In your position, with book in hand, they may listen more, but that's still no guarantee any real changes would be made.

Clown loaches really seem to bear the brunt of this trend of misinformation. They seem to be very prone to certain diseases such as ich, and are often sold to people for snail control. I have seen small clowns being sold to people for this reason, too.., and I find it really sad. I was interested in clowns for my 55 gallon tank until I found out this is an inadequate size. It would be so great if the correct info was more available at the store, because not everyone is ambitious enough to find out on their own time, and the right info can be so hard to find!! And you are right, if kittens or puppies were treated in this way, there would be a huge public outcry. I think fish have to be next to get rights.

I have been considering getting a job at a fish store, but seeing these things has stopped me. I wonder if I were to work there, if they would allow me to carry out the medication and maintenance I would think necessary. If not, then I'm not sure it would be worth it. There does seem to be a very high turnover in these places, that having to do with so many things outside of the fish trade, in a conversation large enough for its own web-page.

Yes, Wal-Mart is evil! I got my first weather loaches there for 2.98 CDN. They are healthy, and were fairly large at purchase. If you haven't kept this species I would highly reccommend them. They have so much personality! I wonder, with them loving cooler water, if they might not be happy in a home similar to, or alongside of, some of your hillstreams.

Only thing I can think of with the goldfish is that they may have been used to break the tank in at the beginning. Otherwise this is a great, big ??HUUH?? Strange.

Bye for now.,
soul-hugger