black ghost knifefish
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black ghost knifefish
im curious i just added two bgk to a 20 gallon by themselves at first they swam normally now it seems they are laying on thier side resting alot ...alot of places say thats how they rest but i just want to be sure any help
Throw us some photos of your set-up.
Provide lots of hiding spots- bamboo or PVC/HDPE pipe sections work great. Without lots of hides the big(er) one will try to kill the little one. They're notorious for not getting along with anything else that's electric.
They do often sleep on their sides or even upside down. They don't seem to care about orientation.
They need aged/old water (an older/established tank should be fine).
You'll find they outgrow a 20Gal set-up in about 6 months. Start looking for a second hand 50+ and a couple of power-heads. Good current is appreciated.
Great pets. They quickly learn to eat from your hand.
A
Provide lots of hiding spots- bamboo or PVC/HDPE pipe sections work great. Without lots of hides the big(er) one will try to kill the little one. They're notorious for not getting along with anything else that's electric.
They do often sleep on their sides or even upside down. They don't seem to care about orientation.
They need aged/old water (an older/established tank should be fine).
You'll find they outgrow a 20Gal set-up in about 6 months. Start looking for a second hand 50+ and a couple of power-heads. Good current is appreciated.
Great pets. They quickly learn to eat from your hand.
A
"I can eat 50 eggs !"
[img]http://i287.photobucket.c%20om/albums/ll133/tnc2170
8/DSC02160.jpg[/IMG] 
i have two thirty gallon set ups one with two chinese hi fin banded sharks ,two plecos, a rapheal spotted catfish, a senegal bichir and two iredescent sharks and one with two black ghost knife fish and a bushy nose blue eyed plecoSly,
First of all, stop going to the shop that sold you this/these set-ups. They're setting you up for heartbreak and/or don't have a clue and/or see you coming...
In a, what, 2ft long 30 gal tank you've got 4 fish that can and need to grow to more then 3 feet. The iridescent sharks/cats and the high-fins will outgrow a 50-gal within 5 (more like 3) months. After that they will start developing deformities and illness. Not sure about the birchir, but they tend to be for bigger-water systems for their own reasons.
I don't know what a blue-eyed bushy-nose pleco is, but if it's got blue eyes and a really big head you might have a royal pleco- again, needs a minimum of 100Gal system.
Your high-fins are temperate fish from central/northern china. They require water temperatures of 8-15 degrees less then all of your other fish.
Essentially everything you've got (but for rafael) are fish for experienced folk, animals you take on once you are comfortably into the hobby and have invested in tanks, filters etc... to keep them healthy. Rule of thumb- buy the tank, then the fish.
If i was recommending:
option a) (in an angry face) take back to the store everything that will get monsterous- sharks and high-fins for sure. Google and research the rest and decide for yourself.
Put one BGK in one tank, the other in the other. Get A LOT of structure/habitat- bamboo, pipe, rocks, sticks, wood (from your garden or DIY store), way more plants etc... and set your filters so the water is moving in a circle around the tank. The other fish are less dramatic.
option b) get two new tanks, both 300-500gallons and set one up in the house and one on the porch outside. Everyone in the inside one but the high-fins, which go outside. With enough hides/habitat on the bottom the iridescents won't eat everything else, though the birchir might.
NB: your high-fins mature into something that looks like a north american gray-brown horse-sucker by the time it gets about 18inches (relatively ugly), less then 2 years.
Crap pet-shops do this to good-intentioned people all the time. They're goal is to make money, not to help you (and your fish) to have an enjoyable experience. Depending on your state you can might be able to report them to either the ASPCA or better business bureau.
Hope this helps,
A
ps: check and see- High fins may be illegal in some states. They are controlled in the UK as potential invasive species.
First of all, stop going to the shop that sold you this/these set-ups. They're setting you up for heartbreak and/or don't have a clue and/or see you coming...
In a, what, 2ft long 30 gal tank you've got 4 fish that can and need to grow to more then 3 feet. The iridescent sharks/cats and the high-fins will outgrow a 50-gal within 5 (more like 3) months. After that they will start developing deformities and illness. Not sure about the birchir, but they tend to be for bigger-water systems for their own reasons.
I don't know what a blue-eyed bushy-nose pleco is, but if it's got blue eyes and a really big head you might have a royal pleco- again, needs a minimum of 100Gal system.
Your high-fins are temperate fish from central/northern china. They require water temperatures of 8-15 degrees less then all of your other fish.
Essentially everything you've got (but for rafael) are fish for experienced folk, animals you take on once you are comfortably into the hobby and have invested in tanks, filters etc... to keep them healthy. Rule of thumb- buy the tank, then the fish.
If i was recommending:
option a) (in an angry face) take back to the store everything that will get monsterous- sharks and high-fins for sure. Google and research the rest and decide for yourself.
Put one BGK in one tank, the other in the other. Get A LOT of structure/habitat- bamboo, pipe, rocks, sticks, wood (from your garden or DIY store), way more plants etc... and set your filters so the water is moving in a circle around the tank. The other fish are less dramatic.
option b) get two new tanks, both 300-500gallons and set one up in the house and one on the porch outside. Everyone in the inside one but the high-fins, which go outside. With enough hides/habitat on the bottom the iridescents won't eat everything else, though the birchir might.
NB: your high-fins mature into something that looks like a north american gray-brown horse-sucker by the time it gets about 18inches (relatively ugly), less then 2 years.
Crap pet-shops do this to good-intentioned people all the time. They're goal is to make money, not to help you (and your fish) to have an enjoyable experience. Depending on your state you can might be able to report them to either the ASPCA or better business bureau.
Hope this helps,
A
ps: check and see- High fins may be illegal in some states. They are controlled in the UK as potential invasive species.
"I can eat 50 eggs !"
I wouldn't recommend putting the high fins outside in NJ. We've had below freezing temps for over a week. 
other than that, Sly, everything they've said above is true.
other than that, Sly, everything they've said above is true.
books. gotta love em!
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
Ditto, only more so.
You will need a swimming pool for these fish, and a good sized pond, separate, for the cool water fish.
I have tried to add the Latin names of your fish. Look them up at
www.fishbase.org
to get more information about the adult size of these fish. Most young fish grow very fast, attaining at least 25% and usually more of their adult size the first year when they are properly cared for. My largest Sengal Bicher is 75% of his adult size at less than 1 year old (Might be a little older than a year, of course, but they were all pretty small when I got them, and I have not yet had them a year)
Senegal Biches (Polypterus senegalus) can reach a foot pretty easily. It is all the protein they eat. They are predators that can eat a fish that is the same diameter as the Bicher is. They can open their mouths big enough, and have the digestive system to do this. They are hunters with the drive to do this. Their high protein diet quickly leads to water quality problems; high protein foods are high in nitrogen, which gets turned into ammonia by the fish. I have my Bichers in a 125 gallon tank, and the fish vary from 6" to 10" long.
You may run into a problem, though. Catfish are armed. They have spines, often modified fin rays. Sometimes these spines are toxic. If the Bicher attempts to eat the Raphael (In terms of size, this is a possibility- the Bicher may think the Raphael is edible) you are highly likely to lose both fish.
The spotted Raphael (Agamyxis pectinifrons) and the Bristlenose Ancistrus sp (If this is what it is) are the only two that can live in a 30 gallon tank for their entire life. The spotted Raphael can handle cooler water than many tropical fish, though not as cool as the High Fins. (20*C - 26*C is their range, per Baensch. Cooler for short term is OK) They come from shallow streams that cool off at night. Fish from smaller streams often need higher oxygen levels in the water, too, meaning a serious water circulation system in whatever tank they are in.
Black Ghost Knives (Apteronotus albifrons) get large (20"), and need a lot more hiding places than show in your photographs. A common trick is to use a clear tube for them. They sense their surroundings by an electrical field, and they do not seem to know the tube is clear. You can see them, they feel safe. Their electrical system makes them uncomfortable in a tank with too many other fish. I have quite a lot of rocks in the tank with my Knife, and he comes out for food, but I have to look into the tank in a certain direction to see him most of the time.
Irridescent Sharks: Pangasius hypothalamus
See also http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=5186
"Blue Eyed" Pleco might be Panaque, rather than Ancistrus.
Chinese High Fin Banded Shark: Myxocyprinus asiaticus
Are there other Plecos? Common Plecos would be another problem fish. Hypancistrus sp.
You will need a swimming pool for these fish, and a good sized pond, separate, for the cool water fish.
I have tried to add the Latin names of your fish. Look them up at
www.fishbase.org
to get more information about the adult size of these fish. Most young fish grow very fast, attaining at least 25% and usually more of their adult size the first year when they are properly cared for. My largest Sengal Bicher is 75% of his adult size at less than 1 year old (Might be a little older than a year, of course, but they were all pretty small when I got them, and I have not yet had them a year)
Senegal Biches (Polypterus senegalus) can reach a foot pretty easily. It is all the protein they eat. They are predators that can eat a fish that is the same diameter as the Bicher is. They can open their mouths big enough, and have the digestive system to do this. They are hunters with the drive to do this. Their high protein diet quickly leads to water quality problems; high protein foods are high in nitrogen, which gets turned into ammonia by the fish. I have my Bichers in a 125 gallon tank, and the fish vary from 6" to 10" long.
You may run into a problem, though. Catfish are armed. They have spines, often modified fin rays. Sometimes these spines are toxic. If the Bicher attempts to eat the Raphael (In terms of size, this is a possibility- the Bicher may think the Raphael is edible) you are highly likely to lose both fish.
The spotted Raphael (Agamyxis pectinifrons) and the Bristlenose Ancistrus sp (If this is what it is) are the only two that can live in a 30 gallon tank for their entire life. The spotted Raphael can handle cooler water than many tropical fish, though not as cool as the High Fins. (20*C - 26*C is their range, per Baensch. Cooler for short term is OK) They come from shallow streams that cool off at night. Fish from smaller streams often need higher oxygen levels in the water, too, meaning a serious water circulation system in whatever tank they are in.
Black Ghost Knives (Apteronotus albifrons) get large (20"), and need a lot more hiding places than show in your photographs. A common trick is to use a clear tube for them. They sense their surroundings by an electrical field, and they do not seem to know the tube is clear. You can see them, they feel safe. Their electrical system makes them uncomfortable in a tank with too many other fish. I have quite a lot of rocks in the tank with my Knife, and he comes out for food, but I have to look into the tank in a certain direction to see him most of the time.
Irridescent Sharks: Pangasius hypothalamus
See also http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=5186
"Blue Eyed" Pleco might be Panaque, rather than Ancistrus.
Chinese High Fin Banded Shark: Myxocyprinus asiaticus
Are there other Plecos? Common Plecos would be another problem fish. Hypancistrus sp.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I just added up the adult lengths of the fish (Baensch), guessing on the ID of a few:
(2) High Fins (60 cm) = 120 cm
(2) Common Plecos (30-60 cm, depending on species, several are sold as commons, and I do not see them in your pictures) Assume 120 cm.
(1) Spotted Raphael (16 cm) = 16 cm
(1) Bristlenose (several species, most are 15 cm or so) = 15 cm
OR Panaque suttonorum, the Blue Eyed Panaque (18 cm)
(2) Irrys (Baensch says 100 cm, but see the Planet Catfish photos) 200 cm
(2) BGK (50 cm) = 100 cm
(1) Bicher (30 cm) = 30 cm
This is at least 6 meters of fish, just in terms of their length.
Fish waste increases not based on the length of the fish, but based on the mass. A fish that is twice as long as another fish produces 8 times the waste. Your fish which are now in around 80 gallons of water, and now are around 2-3" each (perhaps 2' long, in all) will need over 300 times as much water as adults.
Here's the math:
Assume your fish can reach 3" each in their current set up. Close to 3' total length (11 fish @ 3" = 33") to something close to or over 20', an increase in length of 7 times. (33" x 7 = 19.25')
Mass and waste grows at a cube of the length, so a 7x increase in length means a 7 x 7 x 7 increase in waste. And 343 times the current water volume to dilute the waste, to say nothing about providing a proper swimming and hiding environment for such large fish.
If I understand the post correctly you have them in three tanks of 20 + 30 + 30 gallons= 80 gallons.
If you are able to stay on top of the water changes at the projected fish size of 3" each, in the current tanks, then your fish will need 80 gallons x 343 = over 27,000 gallons
Lets look at the worst case: The Irrys. They get over 3' long, (and it is not a thin, slinky sort of length, either. They get taller and fatter as they mature.). To have enough space to exercise I would put this size fish in a tank not less than 30' in the longest dimension, and not less than 6' in the short dimension. (10x the fish length is none too small for straight line swimming, and twice the fish length for turning around at each end). Assume that twice the height as the short width is OK (There are tanks with this ratio) = 30' long x 6' wide x 12' tall = over 16,000 gallons, and you have just housed 2 of the fish (An adult Irry could probably eat any of the other fish, so cannot house them together), or about 1/3 of the adult lengths of all the fish.
Nine more to go! But they are all smaller than the Irrys, and more sedentary, so instead of pretending the Irrys are only 1/3 of fish (based just on length) I think they are more like 2/3 of all the rest of the fish, based on mass.
If you assume you need 1.5 x 16,000 gallons for all the fish, you are now talking about 24,000 gallons. Not exactly the same number as above (27,000 gallons), just that you are not talking homeowner sized tanks for your current collection.
(2) High Fins (60 cm) = 120 cm
(2) Common Plecos (30-60 cm, depending on species, several are sold as commons, and I do not see them in your pictures) Assume 120 cm.
(1) Spotted Raphael (16 cm) = 16 cm
(1) Bristlenose (several species, most are 15 cm or so) = 15 cm
OR Panaque suttonorum, the Blue Eyed Panaque (18 cm)
(2) Irrys (Baensch says 100 cm, but see the Planet Catfish photos) 200 cm
(2) BGK (50 cm) = 100 cm
(1) Bicher (30 cm) = 30 cm
This is at least 6 meters of fish, just in terms of their length.
Fish waste increases not based on the length of the fish, but based on the mass. A fish that is twice as long as another fish produces 8 times the waste. Your fish which are now in around 80 gallons of water, and now are around 2-3" each (perhaps 2' long, in all) will need over 300 times as much water as adults.
Here's the math:
Assume your fish can reach 3" each in their current set up. Close to 3' total length (11 fish @ 3" = 33") to something close to or over 20', an increase in length of 7 times. (33" x 7 = 19.25')
Mass and waste grows at a cube of the length, so a 7x increase in length means a 7 x 7 x 7 increase in waste. And 343 times the current water volume to dilute the waste, to say nothing about providing a proper swimming and hiding environment for such large fish.
If I understand the post correctly you have them in three tanks of 20 + 30 + 30 gallons= 80 gallons.
If you are able to stay on top of the water changes at the projected fish size of 3" each, in the current tanks, then your fish will need 80 gallons x 343 = over 27,000 gallons
Lets look at the worst case: The Irrys. They get over 3' long, (and it is not a thin, slinky sort of length, either. They get taller and fatter as they mature.). To have enough space to exercise I would put this size fish in a tank not less than 30' in the longest dimension, and not less than 6' in the short dimension. (10x the fish length is none too small for straight line swimming, and twice the fish length for turning around at each end). Assume that twice the height as the short width is OK (There are tanks with this ratio) = 30' long x 6' wide x 12' tall = over 16,000 gallons, and you have just housed 2 of the fish (An adult Irry could probably eat any of the other fish, so cannot house them together), or about 1/3 of the adult lengths of all the fish.
Nine more to go! But they are all smaller than the Irrys, and more sedentary, so instead of pretending the Irrys are only 1/3 of fish (based just on length) I think they are more like 2/3 of all the rest of the fish, based on mass.
If you assume you need 1.5 x 16,000 gallons for all the fish, you are now talking about 24,000 gallons. Not exactly the same number as above (27,000 gallons), just that you are not talking homeowner sized tanks for your current collection.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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