I realize it is a lot of info.
I start posting one part of one answer, and feel that I should not leave out related info.
Clowdy water help
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Much thanks for it all though. I am doing water changes every 3 days for the next 9 days and i want to re check things allong the way and after.
6 polkadot loaches, 6 blood fin tetras, 7 white cloud mtn. minnows, 3 gold barbs, 1 flying fox, and 1 pleco munching up my algae. oh yea i am expiermenting with sanils, humm.
Keep posting info as you get it, and lets see what numbers change, and where they go.
Cloudy water in itself is not usually threatening to the fish.
As an indicator that something is going on it can be helpful, but it really does not say what the problem is.
Doing all sorts of tests is the way to figure out what is happening. Posting the results and getting lots of input can be very helpful.
Cloudy water in itself is not usually threatening to the fish.
As an indicator that something is going on it can be helpful, but it really does not say what the problem is.
Doing all sorts of tests is the way to figure out what is happening. Posting the results and getting lots of input can be very helpful.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
First off thanks for the great replies and sorry it has been a while since i have gotten back, i have been verry buisy.
I have been diong H2O channges and some tests and i have some results.
Tap water pH fresh from the tap - 7.4
Tap water pH after standing for 24-48 hours. - 7.4
Tap water GH - 5
Tap water KH - 1-0
Tank pH -6.2
Tank GH - 5
Tank KH - 1-0
Also
NH3/NH4 - 0
NO2 - 0.1
My water is still clowdy though slightly less.
I am guessing i need to raise my ph,- and do more water changes to lower NO2?
The fish do seem happy though.
I have been diong H2O channges and some tests and i have some results.
Tap water pH fresh from the tap - 7.4
Tap water pH after standing for 24-48 hours. - 7.4
Tap water GH - 5
Tap water KH - 1-0
Tank pH -6.2
Tank GH - 5
Tank KH - 1-0
Also
NH3/NH4 - 0
NO2 - 0.1
My water is still clowdy though slightly less.
I am guessing i need to raise my ph,- and do more water changes to lower NO2?
The fish do seem happy though.
6 polkadot loaches, 6 blood fin tetras, 7 white cloud mtn. minnows, 3 gold barbs, 1 flying fox, and 1 pleco munching up my algae. oh yea i am expiermenting with sanils, humm.
The very low KH (1 degree) is allowing the pH to fluctuate.
I would add some baking soda to raise the KH to something closer to 3 degrees and see if this stabilizes the pH in the mid 6s.
I have used 1 teaspoon of baking soda per 30 gallons to raise the KH by 2 degrees and this raised the pH from 6.0 to 6.2.
(Metric: about 5 ml baking soda in 120 liters of water)
The effect was not stable in my tank because the substrate kept removing the KH from the water, so I had to keep adding baking soda. After about 6 months it finally quit.
You can test this in a bucket. 1/8 teaspoon of baking soda in 4 gallons (metric: .5 ml per 16 liters) is close enough to the amount I used that you will be able to tell if it will do the job for you. If you think you need to add more than 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons then do this over several days. Perhaps 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons twice a week. Monitor the tank to see what is going on. The tap water looks stable: pH of 7.4 even after sitting out, even though the KH is so low. But something in the tank is lowering the pH. This is often some sort of organic activity. Quite a few organic reactions end up lowering the pH in a tank. When the KH is so low it does not take much to alter the pH.
I would add some baking soda to raise the KH to something closer to 3 degrees and see if this stabilizes the pH in the mid 6s.
I have used 1 teaspoon of baking soda per 30 gallons to raise the KH by 2 degrees and this raised the pH from 6.0 to 6.2.
(Metric: about 5 ml baking soda in 120 liters of water)
The effect was not stable in my tank because the substrate kept removing the KH from the water, so I had to keep adding baking soda. After about 6 months it finally quit.
You can test this in a bucket. 1/8 teaspoon of baking soda in 4 gallons (metric: .5 ml per 16 liters) is close enough to the amount I used that you will be able to tell if it will do the job for you. If you think you need to add more than 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons then do this over several days. Perhaps 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons twice a week. Monitor the tank to see what is going on. The tap water looks stable: pH of 7.4 even after sitting out, even though the KH is so low. But something in the tank is lowering the pH. This is often some sort of organic activity. Quite a few organic reactions end up lowering the pH in a tank. When the KH is so low it does not take much to alter the pH.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I am not being rude please put up with me for a second....
WOW THANK YOU!
I am so amazed constantly with the kindness and quality found here.
Thank you again.
The only other place i visit regulary on the net seems to pride them selfs on being really mean and witholding information rather than working with a fellow enthusiast and helping someone who genually cares find a solution.
And I am sorry to hold my expections so low I will hold my head higher from now on.
I refear to you reposting what was allready given to me as what i should have been doing. And doing it kindly even.
I did read that advice and I am going to do just that but i did not yet because I wanted to try many water changes to see what hapened and not have to add any thing to my fishes water if I did not have to , you know naturel is good. I realise baking soda is harmless enough but I wanted to go pure if i could.
I really thank you again and I will be back soon with results.
Your recent post really also healped me with this - " The very low KH (1 degree) is allowing the pH to fluctuate.
I would add some baking soda to raise the KH to something closer to 3 degrees and see if this stabilizes the pH in the mid 6s." and "After about 6 months it finally quit."
I keep learning.
Be back soon.
Peace
WOW THANK YOU!
I am so amazed constantly with the kindness and quality found here.
Thank you again.
The only other place i visit regulary on the net seems to pride them selfs on being really mean and witholding information rather than working with a fellow enthusiast and helping someone who genually cares find a solution.
And I am sorry to hold my expections so low I will hold my head higher from now on.
I refear to you reposting what was allready given to me as what i should have been doing. And doing it kindly even.
I did read that advice and I am going to do just that but i did not yet because I wanted to try many water changes to see what hapened and not have to add any thing to my fishes water if I did not have to , you know naturel is good. I realise baking soda is harmless enough but I wanted to go pure if i could.
I really thank you again and I will be back soon with results.
Your recent post really also healped me with this - " The very low KH (1 degree) is allowing the pH to fluctuate.
I would add some baking soda to raise the KH to something closer to 3 degrees and see if this stabilizes the pH in the mid 6s." and "After about 6 months it finally quit."
I keep learning.
Be back soon.
Peace
6 polkadot loaches, 6 blood fin tetras, 7 white cloud mtn. minnows, 3 gold barbs, 1 flying fox, and 1 pleco munching up my algae. oh yea i am expiermenting with sanils, humm.
There are other sources of carbonates, and they are even more natural. However these other sources may also raise the GH, and are slower acting than baking soda.
Coral sand or oystershell grit (sold for caged birds) are mostly calcium carbonate. I have this as a substrate in some hard water tanks, and in the filters of these tanks so they can slowly dissolve in the water. When I do water change in these tanks, though, I add baking soda and other minerals to the new water so that it matches the existing water.
Limestone based sand will also do this. So will limestone rocks, but because of the small surface area compared to all the many particles of sand a chunk of limestone will not dissolve very fast, and the effect will happen more slowly.
If you wanted to use one (or more) of these products just because they are more natural then your water change schedule might look more like this:
Couple of days or a week ahead run water into a garbage can.
Add dechlorinator.
Add an aquarium heater.
Add a filter such as a small HOB filter (any of the cheap cartridge style filters), or a good sized internal filter (perhaps a Fluval 3 or 4 internal style) with a box that is big enough for a bag of coral sand or oyster shell grit. I use nylon stockings to hold fine media like these. Half a knee-hi would probably be about right. More water flow through a bag that is not so full, but add more bags would probably make the change in water chemistry happen faster.
Add one or both of these materials to the filter. Another way is to put a pump in the bottom of the garbage can, aimed toward the top, and put several bags of these materials on the floor of the garbage can.
Test every few days until the water has the right values. Test GH, KH and pH. Most minerals (limestone, marble, Holey Rock) and animal products (Coral and oystershell) that have carbonates have them in a form such as calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate. As these dissolve they will raise the GH (Calcium and Magnesium) as well as the KH (Carbonate)
Again, testing on a small scale, perhaps in a 5 gallon bucket can help you decide if this method would work for you. In a 5 gallon bucket you might not find a small enough pump or filter, so you might just dump in some of the sand or grit, loose, and stir the bucket by hand a few times per day.
Coral sand or oystershell grit (sold for caged birds) are mostly calcium carbonate. I have this as a substrate in some hard water tanks, and in the filters of these tanks so they can slowly dissolve in the water. When I do water change in these tanks, though, I add baking soda and other minerals to the new water so that it matches the existing water.
Limestone based sand will also do this. So will limestone rocks, but because of the small surface area compared to all the many particles of sand a chunk of limestone will not dissolve very fast, and the effect will happen more slowly.
If you wanted to use one (or more) of these products just because they are more natural then your water change schedule might look more like this:
Couple of days or a week ahead run water into a garbage can.
Add dechlorinator.
Add an aquarium heater.
Add a filter such as a small HOB filter (any of the cheap cartridge style filters), or a good sized internal filter (perhaps a Fluval 3 or 4 internal style) with a box that is big enough for a bag of coral sand or oyster shell grit. I use nylon stockings to hold fine media like these. Half a knee-hi would probably be about right. More water flow through a bag that is not so full, but add more bags would probably make the change in water chemistry happen faster.
Add one or both of these materials to the filter. Another way is to put a pump in the bottom of the garbage can, aimed toward the top, and put several bags of these materials on the floor of the garbage can.
Test every few days until the water has the right values. Test GH, KH and pH. Most minerals (limestone, marble, Holey Rock) and animal products (Coral and oystershell) that have carbonates have them in a form such as calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate. As these dissolve they will raise the GH (Calcium and Magnesium) as well as the KH (Carbonate)
Again, testing on a small scale, perhaps in a 5 gallon bucket can help you decide if this method would work for you. In a 5 gallon bucket you might not find a small enough pump or filter, so you might just dump in some of the sand or grit, loose, and stir the bucket by hand a few times per day.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Back again.
I tested baking soda in a 5 gal. bucket. the ph rose to 6.8 and the kh to 4.
The #'s were the same the next day so I added a total of 1 teaspoon of baking powder to the 8 gallons I used for a water change.
Today the tank has a ph of 6.8 but the kh is still 1-0.?
I will retest tomorow.
I am guessing I should do anouther water change again in a day or two but do I wand more baking soda?
Thanks for all the help so far.
The fish seem happy but I woun't let that fool me.
Oh yea will adding more baking soda continue to raise ph or not?
I tested baking soda in a 5 gal. bucket. the ph rose to 6.8 and the kh to 4.
The #'s were the same the next day so I added a total of 1 teaspoon of baking powder to the 8 gallons I used for a water change.
Today the tank has a ph of 6.8 but the kh is still 1-0.?
I will retest tomorow.
I am guessing I should do anouther water change again in a day or two but do I wand more baking soda?
Thanks for all the help so far.
The fish seem happy but I woun't let that fool me.
Oh yea will adding more baking soda continue to raise ph or not?
6 polkadot loaches, 6 blood fin tetras, 7 white cloud mtn. minnows, 3 gold barbs, 1 flying fox, and 1 pleco munching up my algae. oh yea i am expiermenting with sanils, humm.
There seems to be something in the tank that is removing the carbonates, or else your test kt is old. Is there a date on the test kit?
If you add just a little baking soda to the water with each water change that should maintain whatever level you choose, if there is not something in the tank that is removing carbonates.
I have some substrate that removes carbonates from the water.
I had to add small amounts of baking soda for about 6 months before it quit, and the KH and pH stabilized. The secret to keeping the fish happy is small changes, not big ones.
With your low KH in the tap water I would add just a little baking soda with each water change. If you regularly change 8 gallons of water I would add 1/4 teaspoon to that. Monitor the KH and pH and see if it becomes stable.
If you add just a little baking soda to the water with each water change that should maintain whatever level you choose, if there is not something in the tank that is removing carbonates.
I have some substrate that removes carbonates from the water.
I had to add small amounts of baking soda for about 6 months before it quit, and the KH and pH stabilized. The secret to keeping the fish happy is small changes, not big ones.
With your low KH in the tap water I would add just a little baking soda with each water change. If you regularly change 8 gallons of water I would add 1/4 teaspoon to that. Monitor the KH and pH and see if it becomes stable.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
No the UGH is not running anymore.
And as to some substrate that removes carbonates, what kind of things do that?
I did have an idea - my mom only lives a mile away and she is on a well.
Is well water better? I am not saying this is my solution, just is it a better water to use? I could go test her water and use it if their is a reason to do so?
I just looked at the date on the test kit and i am confused(I hate it when the date is in code) and it says... 10. then a rectangle followed by a 0 then 9??? talk about odd.
If anyone knows what that means great if not i guess I will go back to the store and have them figure it out.
Thanks so much.
And as to some substrate that removes carbonates, what kind of things do that?
I did have an idea - my mom only lives a mile away and she is on a well.
Is well water better? I am not saying this is my solution, just is it a better water to use? I could go test her water and use it if their is a reason to do so?
I just looked at the date on the test kit and i am confused(I hate it when the date is in code) and it says... 10. then a rectangle followed by a 0 then 9??? talk about odd.
If anyone knows what that means great if not i guess I will go back to the store and have them figure it out.
Thanks so much.
6 polkadot loaches, 6 blood fin tetras, 7 white cloud mtn. minnows, 3 gold barbs, 1 flying fox, and 1 pleco munching up my algae. oh yea i am expiermenting with sanils, humm.
Without knowing the test results no one can say well water is better or worse.
If you want to consider the well water then test:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
and pH on a sample that has sat out for 24-48 hours
GH
KH
any and all other tests you may have.
Aquarium pharmaceuticals uses a code that can be translated to a month and year of manufacture. Most of their tests are good for 3-5 years (it varies with the test) after manufacture. I do not know how other manufacturers date their test kits.
If the test kit sat on the store shelf for a long time before you bought it it might actually be close to or past its useful date, even if you just bought it a few weeks or a couple of months ago.
If you want to consider the well water then test:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
and pH on a sample that has sat out for 24-48 hours
GH
KH
any and all other tests you may have.
Aquarium pharmaceuticals uses a code that can be translated to a month and year of manufacture. Most of their tests are good for 3-5 years (it varies with the test) after manufacture. I do not know how other manufacturers date their test kits.
If the test kit sat on the store shelf for a long time before you bought it it might actually be close to or past its useful date, even if you just bought it a few weeks or a couple of months ago.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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