Strange Clown Loach Behavior?

[Icewall42]

So, I think I finally have the tank checmicals under some sort of control. When I last changed out some of the water, the ammonia spiked, leading me to beleive that there really is something wrong with the water in this apartment and perhaps because I didn't see these spikes without the meter, they could have been unchecked during previous water changes and killed sensitive fish. I might now have a better theory for the sudden and inexplicable fish deaths that have been occurring over the past year or so.

I now know the clowns, the big ones, are "allergic" to carbon. It causes their pigments to go all wacky.

Now, however, I'm noticing an odd change in my two largest clowns in the clown pack of 12. One is 12-13 years old and about 11", the other is about 7-8 years old and 10" or so. The younger one was always the beta loach and the other the alpha, and they held this pecking order for many years, ever since I got the beta loach as a little baby. He was always thinner and more docile.

Now however, I notice that the alpha has lost a lot of weight, I don't think it's enough to be skinny but I still really worry, and this morning his fin was split. The previous beta is now gaining weight and just about the same size as the alpha.

After all these years, is it possible that the alpha status is transfering between the two loaches, with the new alpha gaining weight and the new beta losing weight? Is this at all normal?? I think I heard someone here experienced an alpha change and it sounded quite a bit more violent. Any thoughts or advice?

[chefkeith]

Sounds like a double edge sword. With carbon, the ammonia gets removed, but the clowns get black spots. Without the carbon the ammonia spikes and you get a few mystery deaths.

What is the plant situation? Do you have any fast growing plants in the tank? I've had luck with using house plants and letting their roots soak in the tank water.

Can you give an update on the clown loach that turned black? Did it ever get it's color back?


I don't know what to think about the alpha loaches gaining and losing weight. Anytime a fish loses weight I'd be concerned though. Which fish is getting thinner? is it the one that turned black?

[chefkeith]

It just hit me why carbon might be promoting black spots. It's because the carbon is removing hormones from the water. This removal of the hormones triggers the fish glands to produce more of the black pigment. The same thing happened to my loaches when I was doing large water changes.

What you should try to do is get a carbon block filter that connects to the faucet, so that it filters the tap water. I think that might solve the problem.

[Icewall42]

That sounds like a good idea, and a very likely theory. I was thinking about putting the carbon back in the filter for a day or so, enough time to filter but not enough to really affect the fish.

As for the black one, he got all better and regained all of his color almost back to normal. This is the same fish that has lost some weight however. He seemed to be eating fine for a number of weeks without really gaining back what he had lost, but just yesterday and this morning I noticed he was the only one not eating. His nose is even more banged up and a bit bloody than yesterday. I'm really at a loss what to do because it doesn't look like he's sick so I don't actually know what to treat the tank for except open wounds. It's almost like he's acting utterly depressed. He's my most beloved fish, and I just can't stand the thought of him dying, too, especially since I've lost so many others

[fhm_usa]

I used to have Carbon all the time in my fish tank filter w/Clowns and did not see any effect it's only when my mew loaches came that I notice that problem you were talking about.

[Icewall42]

I forgot about the plants... I had a couple amazons in there, but the loaches tend to waste them. I've been trying to get something to grow in there for a while.

As for the carbon, my biggest loaches never before had a problem with it, but after I stopped using it for a while and restarted using it, that's when the problems showed up. I thought it was because I was using a different brand, but I thought carbon was carbon. For now, it's just safer to go without.

As for the big guy, I went and got some frozen bloodworms and he seems to be accepting that, so hopefully he will be all right.

[andyroo]

Re: Carbon, why not try a handful of peat in stead? Good ol' fashioned Canadian garden sphagnum moss, maybe put it in a sock to keep it in place. Removes nasties without some of the harsher aspects. Also conditions water with a slight fall in pH.

Re: plants, what Keith was talking about was emergent terrestrial plants. Something like tie-plant or spider plant or a vining creeper work well. No dumb-cane or anything toxic. Tape it to the side of the tank with the bottom in the water and the roots will shoot in a couple of days. Removes nutrients like madness and loaches won't tend to eat the exposed roots (as far as i've seen).

A

[Icewall42]

Oh okay, both of those sound like great ideas. I'll just need to find a place that sells such things--Philly can be notoriously hard in finding specific items.

[andyroo]

Garden store. Tough part is trying to get the plants to stay upright and at the right level- not too deep, not too shallow. Then it all changes when a) the water level changes or b) the plant grows and changes weight.
Get creative. And if you come up with something that works keep me/us posted :)