Metal poisoning. Need advice

[loachmom]

Several weeks ago, I redid my kuhli tank, adding small river stones across the front of it. In the process, I broke my thermometer. All those little BBs fell into the little river stones. Stupidly, I figured that surely those little BBs would be made of lead since they were going to be used in an aquarium. I never thought another thing about it.

Now over the last week, I've been losing kuhlis, one after another. I've lost 9 of them so far. I thought it must be some parasite since some of them would breathe quickly, so I did a full course of General Cure. I'm still losing them. So this morning, I remembered those little BBs. I decided to dig down through the gravel to find them, and then I ran a magnet over them. THEY STUCK TO THE MAGNET!!!! I couldn't believe it. I've ran the magnet through the gravel a lot of times now, so I think I've got most of them. Now I'm going to do a water change to remove more toxins. If anyone can think of anything else I can do, please tell me.

My kuhlis are my favorites. This is awful.

[Ashleigh]

Sorry to hear this loachmom

Im not to sure what I would do in terms of assisting fish a part from removing them to a bare tank and completly clear the one they are in as it may be possible for the metal to reside in the substrate for a period of time. I did a dissertation on the effects of mercury environmentally, mainly concentrating on fish and problems associated, basically my research showed that mercury will be retained in the fish for a considerable period of time depending what form it was in (ruffly 6months in a mercury free environment and there should be no/very little present), it would also reside in substratum where it was converted into forms that were readily able to be taken up by the fish.

Not exactly the situation you are in as exposure period/concentartions are different, but I would personally try and apply the same criteria until you know a bit more. I would opt for bare bottom tank, plenty of water changes depending on tank size and how many pangio you have in there and hope they recover Depending what metal has been taken up it could take a considerable period of time before they are free of whatever it is.

I have my fingers crossed for you and your remaining fish Try not to worry to much, removing what you could and the water change should have helped a fair bit.


Ashleigh

[Jim Powers]

I wonder how much of this is toxic. I had this happen recently, too, but managed to get all the little bits of metal I could see, out of the tank.
I don't think I missed many, but I'm sure I missed a few.
Good luck!!

[loachmom]

Thank you for your replies, Ashleigh and Jim.

I just got back in the house after being gone all day. I did that 50% water change just before I ran out the door. I just gave the tank a quick look, and all looks well at the moment. This morning, one of the pangios appeared to be in distress, and I haven't found a body yet. So, hopefully, that water change helped.

Ashleigh, the thermometer casing is what broke. I should have made that more clear. No mercury got into the water, thank goodness. It's the little metal BBS that weight down the thermometer that fell into the gravel. I think I got most of the BBs with the magnet, if not all of them. I have about a 1/4 tsp collected so far. When the thermometer broke, some of the BBs remained connected to the thermometer, so I think the 1/4 tsp should be about the amount that fell out.
I'm going to rake through the gravel one more time with the magnet. Then I think I'll do frequent water changes for the rest of the week.

The BBs that I removed are rusty. I'm not sure, either, how toxic they would be. Something was/is killing my fish. I hope it's over now.

Ashleigh, I don't have a tank now that I could move them to, unless I removed all the substrate from their existing tank. But, if more die this week, I will definitely remove their substrate.

Thanks again for your replies and well wishes.

[Diana]

Rust is iron. Yes, those BBs are steel, but not a form of stainless steel.

Iron can be sequestered with EDTA, and this is found in Amquel Plus (I am almost positive).
EDTA is a chelating agent. Many minerals are attracted to it. Each will be held in the EDTA molecule at a different strength than the other metals.

According to a chart in Diana Walstad's book, The Ecology of the Fresh Water Aquarium (page 17) Iron is very attracted to EDTA, and if there are any other minerals in the complex Iron will bump them off.

However.

I do not know how toxic these things really are, or is it a coincidence that your fish are getting sick right after this happened?

I have a few stones in the tank with my Clown Loaches (quite a range of other fish in there, too) and there are a few spots of rust on these stones. I am emphasizing small, there are perhaps half a dozen or fewer spots, about dime sized (less than 2 cm across)

(My browser is running slowly, Go to Kordon's web site and check which product has chelator, or EDTA, or neutralizes heavy metals or however they word it.)

[loachmom]

Thanks Diana. I appreciate your reply. I went to Kordon, and it's NovAqua Plus that removes the heavy metals. I can get that today. I don't use a water conditioner since I have well water, but after reading more at the Kordon website, maybe I should be using one.

Here's an interesting article on the importance of removing heavy metals from aquarium water. http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/ ... etals.html I found it interesting that young animals are most susceptible to heavy metal toxicity. Eight out of the nine loaches that I lost were some of the youngest in the tank. I have a few more young ones that seem OK so far.

I'm not sure how toxic 1/4 tsp of steel BBs would be in a 30 gallon aquarium. Since your loaches are doing well with the rust spots in those rocks, perhaps these deaths are related to something else. Whatever it is, I hope it's over.

Thanks again.

[Diana]

Hard to figure out some of these mystery deaths. Could be any of several things, or a combination. The timing looks like it could be metal poisoning. Are the other conditions in the tank such that that is possible? Some metals are only toxic at certain pH and so on.

[lf11casey]

I'm sorry about your kuhli's loachmom.
I had a thermometer break on me before, and what a pain it was to get those stupid little pellets out. Eventually I just ended up getting a plastic cup and scooping out all the gravel out of the corner of the tank. What Diana says about metal and PH is an interesting thing to consider.

[loachmom]

Thanks Casey Yes, those little BBs are a pain when they are scattered through your substrate. I think I'll invest in those thermometers that stick on the outside of the glass--no chance of breaking those.

My pH is 7.4, which is on the high side. From what I've read, it seems that metals are more toxic in lower pH water. I'm not sure what that means for my situation.
I'm embarassed to say that, due to family busy-ness, I have not been able to get the NovAqua Plus, nor have I done any water changes since I last posted. Fortunately, the tank looks very peaceful, at the moment, and no more fish have died. I hope this is the end of that nightmare.

I still have 20 striped kuhlis and 5 oblonga. The oblonga are fascinating to watch. They are very active little creatures, a lot more visible than the striped kuhlis are. I don't regret buying them at all.

Thanks again everyone.

[Diana]

7.4 is so close to neutral that if any metal was going to be toxic in acidic or alkaline water, but not so toxic in water that is neutral that I think you are OK.

I wonder how much variation there is through in the water that is REALLY close to organic debris in the substrate, perhaps with poor water circulation among the gravel or sand.
If there is anything to this idea then water that is just about part of the biofilm around each rock or grain of sand might be a little more acidic. Whether this really plays a role in metal toxicity when something like this happens (metal beads fall in substrate) I have NO idea.