When does territorial play become dangerous bullying?

[andyroo]

Y. modestas #2 and #3 are pretty fairly matched, so often give each other the gears. Lately one is getting the better of the other, but is not letting up once dominance is established.
Lower animal is starting to look haggard. No particular bites or marks, but a little lean and sometimes sits in the back panting.
What's the likelihood of this getting dangerous/terminal?
Any thoughts on how to diminish this drama? Tank (100gal "show") is already loaded with bamboo, cups, caves and bundled plants- plenty of hiding spots. Good flow, good current and good water.
Blue-crew is 4 right now, has been for about 14 months. No Y. modesta for sale on-island right now. Can order, but would take a good couple of months. Clowns would be easier to get. No other loaches are imported.

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[wasserscheu]

one of my 5 Y. Caudipunctata (which may be similar in behaviour to Modesta) was much smaller than the others. He was mobbed. 6 months after making a little tank available via waterbridge-pipe, he figured it out, that I feed that tank too, he grew to the same size as others within 6 or 8 weeks. So mobbing is an issue, also my smallest clown is a frequent guest in that tank. My smaller tiger, is chased badly by his slightly larger colleague. It looks to the swamp tank after feeding for extra "merci_food". Which he acceptes regularyly. Strange thing, tiger seeks shelter in left attached tank only, Y.C. and Clown in the right attached one only, hmmm.

My beta-clown was finding out she can be "alpha" in the outside tank and used it a lot. Now she is too fat to fit the pipe, I am afraid.

The clowns are not into fighting as much as your Modesta, but I kind of feel, the beta is not happy, getting bossed around. Tha Y. C,. do alot of loud fighting about caves, or just for the fun of fighting. But there are no scratches yet. The garra also do some head on box fights regularily and it seems like some kind of social game for them.

Looks like I need to change my setup very soon.

[Diana]

When the lower ranking fish is starting to go hungry or be too cowed to stand up for at least the right to eat this is definitely time to do something. The alpha fish is getting annoyed that this interloper will not go away far enough, and the next step is violence.

I would try to have at least 5 of these guys (same species) and it may take more. If this is not possible then separating the fish may be the only way to work this out.

Wolfram's solution with the connected tanks helped to define the territory much better than any driftwood, rocks or plants could possibly do in one tank. If the fish cannot figure it out, then separate them.

[andyroo]

Smallest fish is not involved in this little drama, nor is the biggest (Alpha), just the middle two. They seem to have calmed down for now... monitoring.
Will add more split-bamboo tonight with a little vacuuming.

He's/it's not loosing access to food (eating well), just seems/seemed to be getting run-down. Not skinny at all, but lean, almost as though lengthened.
These 2 fish seem substantially longer then the regular anyway. The other two (biggest and smallest) are much bulkier/thicker. I'd send photos but they refuse to pose :)
There seems to be a great deal of variation in this species.

I'd get more if they were around. Very rarely imported, and silly costly when they are.
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[wasserscheu]

alians watching us playing soccer, also may think it's about live or death, but actually it's some kind of entertainment.

With the Y.C. I am pretty sure, their fighting is a kind of game.

I did not see my Stiphodon fight for a long time (just comes to my mind) but they rip their fins and look quite worn and you can see be proud posing on the rock who the winner is. The looser does not appear happy at all, but watching those I was thinking about spiltting them. Actually did but not for that reason, 3 got thin (possibly old) I put them in the smaller tank, where one of them really got fat again. So perhaps I coincidentally got a spread.

I would keep a close eye on them. I mean, I had no opportiunity to split my daugherts neither...

[andyroo]

Shuffled off overnight.
As there was no particular moving about last hight and zero damage to the animal this AM Illness/death likely result of something else- something it/he ate, genetic drama.... No idea. Great/Perfect condition. Can post photos now.... Can really see the likely male sexual characteristics: hooked caudal fin, long profile etc...
Quick autopsy showed.... nothin'. Good guts, good gills, perfect fins, no particular punctures and certainly nothing that would be fatal. Good muscle-mass.
Headache.
Will put in an order to importer-man for 3 more to bring school up to 6.

Problem is that these sort of things always happen in 3's...
Hopefully it'll just be houseplants like last time.....
Vigilance.

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