Urgent! Can my Yoyos be saved from dying?

[ey]

I have 16 Yoyos ranging from 2" to 4" in a 6x2x2 along with clown loaches.

About 12 hours ago, I fed them all some Hikari frozen bloodworms. What happened was a day earlier I got some tank water onto the frozen bloodworms in order to get it to brake more easily as it was stuck (as I had gotten the A4 sheet of bloodworms). The portion that I didnt feed, I put back in the fridge.

I think that is what has caused the Yoyos to die. I have already lost 2 and fear more will come.

Water parameters of the tank are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
pH 6.6

A similar thing happened a few years ago when I lost 12 Yoyos in the space of 48 hours after feeding them some bloodworms that weren't fresh or in the best shape.

I didn't know that by getting some tank water exposed on the bloodworms and reusing it will cause such an issue. The clown loaches are uneffected, thank god.

Is there anything I can do in the meantime? Is there any medication I can use as I suspect the Yoyos have already eaten the worms that have poisoned them.....I have just done a 40% water change

In terms of symptoms, all the Yoyos are breathing rapidly and all seem to have some patch of white stuff on their bodies.

Has anyone experience something similar to this? I have a feeling I will lose most if not all the 16 yoyos in the next 24 hours and want to know if there is anything I can do to prevent this from happening...

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Ardillakilla]

How much did you feed to them? Enough to cause an ammonia spike? I've noticed on some tanks where the biofiltration is kind of maxed out that I can actually smell it in the room maybe a half hour after a feeding accompanied by faster breathing but no deaths.

Not really sure what's going on but I would add something that neutralizes ammonia and maybe nitrite, add aquarium salt to help respiration, and increase aeration if possible.

[mickthefish]

i have'nt heard of it but i do beleive if the bloodworm has been thawed at any point before you got it, it's enough to do what it is doing to your fish.
the only thing i can suggest is to do a 50% WC and add another powerhead or more airation to your tank, that could relieve them of panting so much.
i think the whitish patches could be excess slime building up on the fish, if this is'nt the case i would think about doseing with an anti- bacterial remedy.

hope this helps in someway.

mick

[ey]

How much did you feed to them? Enough to cause an ammonia spike? I've noticed on some tanks where the biofiltration is kind of maxed out that I can actually smell it in the room maybe a half hour after a feeding accompanied by faster breathing but no deaths.

Not really sure what's going on but I would add something that neutralizes ammonia and maybe nitrite, add aquarium salt to help respiration, and increase aeration if possible.

Thanks for the reply. I only fed them a small portion (roughly 3 cube blocks). I don't think it was enough to cause an ammonia spike as the amount was less than what I normally feed.

I have added an air stone to increase aeration and am unsure about adding salt at this stage.

[ey]

i have'nt heard of it but i do beleive if the bloodworm has been thawed at any point before you got it, it's enough to do what it is doing to your fish.
the only thing i can suggest is to do a 50% WC and add another powerhead or more airation to your tank, that could relieve them of panting so much.
i think the whitish patches could be excess slime building up on the fish, if this is'nt the case i would think about doseing with an anti- bacterial remedy.

hope this helps in someway.

mick

Thanks for the suggestion Mick. It was the last piece in the bloodworm pack that I got last month, so if the bloodworms were bad to begin with, I suppose I would have noticed by now. I'm just thinking I could have accidently contaminated the bloodworms by getting them slightly wet and then re-freezing them to feed the next day....would this be a possibility?

I've just done a 40% water change and added an airstone for extra aeration but not sure what else I can do now.

What type of anti-bacterial remedy would you recommend? Would Melafix or Stress Zyme help at all at this stage?

[ey]

I called up the LFS and asked them for advice and all have ruled out the bloodworms as being the cause. One suggested it could be velvet given that the 2 dead yoyos had white patches of coat around there bodies and the other remaining yoyos have something similar. He said I must treat ASAP as velvet can spread to the clown loaches and infect the whole tank.

The other LFS said it could be bacterial infection based on the bacteria on the debris/gravel.

I'm not sure what it is now, could it be velvet?

[mickthefish]

i doubt that very much, the whitish patches on the dead and living loaches i'm sure is excess slime, was the bloodworm a nice red colour or was it a brownish colour?

mick

[ey]

i doubt that very much, the whitish patches on the dead and living loaches i'm sure is excess slime, was the bloodworm a nice red colour or was it a brownish colour?

mick

Update: 10 hours since my first post, I've added a number of medicated tablets into the tank to treat for velvet and any other bacterial infections. Another Yoyo looks like he wont make it, but surprisingly the other Yoyos are behaving normally again, chasing each other, eating and no longer have the white patches on their bodies, nor are they breathing rapidly.

Thanks Mick, regarding the excess slime (whitish stuff), is that a good thing or bad thing to have too much slime on their coat? If so, what is the best remedy? The colour of the bloodworms wasn't your typical dark red/burgundy, yet it wasn't brownish either. It was somewhere in between

Just got a few more opinions from different LFS and all reckon it shouldn't be the worms, as the worms would have been exposed to some heat causing them to slightly melt during transit from the distributor to the LFS. Anway, thats not important now, its how to best cure the tank.

I went to pick up some tablets (hydra sulfur I think, can't remember the name) and they're basically used to cure velvet or any other bacterial infections. I've used it half dosage. The Yoyos look much better now but will just have to monitor the water quality and for any dead Yoyos so as to take them out ASAP when it occurs.

Has anyone experienced something similar to this? I wish there was more that I could do.....I'd have to say this is more stressful compared to treating for Ich as I knew what I was dealing with there and how to treat it whereas there is a lot of uncertainty here and its depressing watching the Yoyos struggle and die 1 by 1

[mickthefish]

ey, the excess slime is a suse fire way to tell you they're not happy at all. the usual way to get rid of if is by WC and adding more flow to the water.

if you ever see your worms that colour again throw them out, being that inbetween colour meant they had started decomposing which could have done the damage with your fish.
it looks like you have it beat and hopefully no other fish die.

mick

[ey]

ey, the excess slime is a suse fire way to tell you they're not happy at all. the usual way to get rid of if is by WC and adding more flow to the water.

if you ever see your worms that colour again throw them out, being that inbetween colour meant they had started decomposing which could have done the damage with your fish.
it looks like you have it beat and hopefully no other fish die.

mick

Mick,

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to say that all the excess slime is now gone (not visible to the naked eye anyway), so thats a good sign for now I suppose.

I just did a 40% water change and added an extra air stone, when should I do another water change, if my regular pattern is one WC per week? I don't want to break up the cycle and do 2 in 3 days if they are used to one a week....but at the same time will have to keep a close eye out for any ammonia spikes.

Thanks, will keep this in mind and better be safe than sorry in future with the worms.

Sadly, the 3rd Yoyo that was struggling earlier just died. Fingers crossed I dont lose anymore as just before turning out the lights, a few of the Yoyos was bolting around the tank in fear for some reason and breathing extremely rapidly....

[Diana]

When there is a suspicion of 'something' going on in the tank more water changes are better. Do not let the population of 'whatever' grow for a whole week before you do a water change.

Velvet is a parasite, not a bacteria.

Excess slime coat suggests there is some irritant, but there are many possible causes. Doing water changes and adding well rinsed activated carbon can help. Breathing fast may suggest something going on with the gills, but it could be whatever irritated the fish into producing excess slime coat, or it could have other causes.
Water chemistry problems would be the first thing I would look into when I saw either of these things going on, and often the answer is more water changes to remove (or at least dilute) whatever the problem is.

I also would not trust off-color foods. If it has ever defrosted, even once, do not feed. Bloodworms should be rich red, almost black, but no hint of brown. As noted above brown suggests they have started going bad.
Other foods may not change color, but you should not see ice crystals in the little cubes. This suggests that they have been refrozen, after defrosting.