stocking questions

[malcularius]

Hello,

I am restarting my 75 gallon. and while poking around my LFs for ideas on stockig it. I was going to do oddballs and a display cichlid (still havent narrowed it down yet, lol). my store sugested clown loaches as one fo my active fun bottom feeders. the loach will have a smaller bichir to live with. i'm thining of either a senagul or a delhizi, or something similer like that.

now i know in time i would have to get a much bigger tank to keep them for their whole lives. unfortunately my floors cant have a tank much bigger than a 75 gallon.

so i guess my question would be what would be better loach for a 75 gallon predator/ oddball tank for its whole life, or if there really isnt a great one for this tank how long would i beable to happily keep the clown loaches in it?

thanks,

Ashley

[bslindgren]

Check http://www.loaches.com/species-index and you'll see a number of potential candidates. I'm not sure I understand what you plan, though. One cichlid and one bichir and one loach? I would recommend you plan the tank for the main attraction (and on this site that would be loaches - go figure) and then stock around that with suitable tank mates. The mix you mention doesn't sound all that suitable to me.

[Diana]

Bichers can open their mouths very wide to eat other fish.
Any Loach large enough not to get eaten will be too large to keep in this size tank, in a large enough group to be socially viable.

I would not suggest Loaches in a tank this small with such a determined predator.

Yes, the answer is a larger tank. I am glad you are asking before getting the fish, and are aware of the issues.

For a 75 gallon tank with a Bicher, a single Cichlid may be a better show fish, because you generally won't want more than one, or maybe a mated pair, so you can get a fish that is big enough not to get eaten, yet not overload the tank.

[malcularius]

considering that i know loaches are social fish i would have a school for them. i recall reading that a min school for clowns should be 5+.

the cichlid will be a south american cichlid, though it will not be any of the super agresive species such as terrors or devils. which ever south american speceis is chosen will be a more "mild" mannered fish. one of such species that is ebing considered is the electric blue jack dempsy, which is not nearly as nasty as the common Jack dempsy's are.

bichirs can go with just about anything that it cannot eat. the clown loaches where also on a list of fish that are suitable tankmates for the smaller species of bichirs. this list was posted by bichir keepers on another forum.

these fish are indeed suitable tankmates for a clown loach, even better would be tigers. unfortunately they too, get large enough to feel unhappy in a 75 gallon.

now if you cant think of one off the top of your head you could of answered my other question toward the bottom of my first post. how long could i keep a group of clowns happy in a 75 gallon setup? granted i started with 2 inch clowns. what is their growth rate?


thanks,
Ashley

[malcularius]

thanks Diana
that was very helpfull ^_^

[Diana]

Starting with 2" Clown Loaches, 5 of them, I would say that they could stay in a 75 gallon tank for about a year, maybe a bit longer. They grow at a moderate rate, not as fast as Bichers.

I would not put any Bichers into this tank with Clowns this small. Bichers grow really fast and will get big enough to eat the young Clown Loaches in just a few months.

[malcularius]

so in a year they would hit the 5 inch mark, or should i expect more to 4 inches?

i wasnt planning on adding the bichir untill the loaches were at least 3 inches. then introducing a very young senegal or delhizi. senegals dont get too terribly large and the "designer" morphs tend to be on the short side sadly

thanks

ashley

[Diana]

In a year a 2" Clown Loach would be about 4". Individuals can vary a bit in how fast they grow.

Introducing the smallest Bicher you can find (youngest) to the tank with 3" Loaches would probably be OK, but before you think the Bicher can eat them, remove the Loaches.

This is such a short term set up that I would really not get started in this direction, unless you really were going to get a larger tank for these fish.

In a larger tank there is indeed room for a nice group of Loaches, and they can be big enough not to get eaten by the Bichers. In the tank you are talking about there is such a short overlap of time when the Clown Loaches are big enough not to get eaten, yet small enough so 5+ are not overwhelming the tank that I just don't see it working for more than a few months.

[malcularius]

so in the long run a min of 125 would be my best bet if i wanted to keep these guys for their whole lives? or would it be better to go even bigger?

again thanks for the info

[malcularius]

i searched on that loach site and found a few species that may be possible.
let me know what you think

Yasuhikotakia eos
Skunk Loach (Yasuhikotakia morleti)
Yasuhikotakia longidorsalis

the next group might be too small dorsalventrally, or in general circumferance. can anybody post measurements?
Botia kubotai
Zebra Loach (Botia striata)
Botia histrionica
Botia dario

[starsplitter7]

I wouldn't put my Histies, Darios, zebras, or Kubotais with my bichir. She could definitely eat them.

Skunks also stay pretty small.

The Eos can be mean, and you need to watch out for the welfare of your bichir too. The same with skunks

I love my bichir. I have her with a ropefish, Synodontis Eruptus, a large eel, . . . most are African fish and they are healthier together. The water issues are similar. Clowns like soft water. I watch my ropefish and bichir, because the eel can be nippy about food. But so far, no aggression.

When you put your tank together, think about which fish would do best together. It can be bad for the fish, if we put them together according to our own tastes.

[malcularius]

starsplitter what kind of bichir do you have?

bichirs are not normaly found in very hard water and are usually found in softer water than the riftlakes. they live in rivers and streams and swampy areas of africa. they are so to say very adaptable fish.

i was told by a number of bichir keepers on a different forum that loaches and bichirs can be great tank mates. if you take care to mix loaches that are not easily swallowed. i'm not too worried about the bichir being bullied by the loaches they have incredabily thick skin and can hold their own against agressors.

i'm not mixing whatever i fancy, i am taking the advice of fellow bichir keepers. while also getting information from loach keepers.