Man, I really don't know how you guys pull off the clear/closeup photos that you do. Mine do not come out even remotely close to that. I'll try to get some shots of my poor hospital tank fish.
I do have some Flub, from Dr. Harrison. Picked it up because I have a skinny loach who refuses to fill out. I dosed the tank twice not too long ago. Did it after I started seeing flashing (but no visible specks)... figured I would have a chance of killing two birds with one stone - whatever was causing skinny to be skinny, and the possible ich.
Unfortunately skinny is still skinny and now I have an ich breakout, haha. I'm not very good at this.
Ich dose question (the follow up doses)
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Holdstrong
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Well, the reason to use Ich Attack is because it's safe to use since you don't know if this is ich or not. Malachite Green is very very harsh on loaches. It will do nothing positive if this is not ich.
Here's some info about Malachite Green, ie Ich Cure by Aquatrol-
" It is carcinogenic and dangerous to handle or breathe (especially for pregnant women). There are rumors circulating that it could be banned for aquarium use by the FDA in the future. It cannot be used on food fish and is toxic to eggs, fry, some varieties of tetras, catfish, elephant noses, loaches and small marine fish. It also may damage your biological filter and will likely stain aquarium decorations and silicone sealant. Malachite Green is light sensitive, and you will be advised to keep your aquarium lights off during treatment to prevent the chemical from oxidizing."
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
Here's some info about Malachite Green, ie Ich Cure by Aquatrol-
" It is carcinogenic and dangerous to handle or breathe (especially for pregnant women). There are rumors circulating that it could be banned for aquarium use by the FDA in the future. It cannot be used on food fish and is toxic to eggs, fry, some varieties of tetras, catfish, elephant noses, loaches and small marine fish. It also may damage your biological filter and will likely stain aquarium decorations and silicone sealant. Malachite Green is light sensitive, and you will be advised to keep your aquarium lights off during treatment to prevent the chemical from oxidizing."
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
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Holdstrong
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Yeah, I'm on board with the Ich Attack... I just mentioned the fish store guy because I got a kick outta his attitude. Him carrying a product in his store, telling me it is crap, and then telling me what all the "professionals" do.chefkeith wrote:Well, the reason to use Ich Attack is because it's safe to use since you don't know if this is ich or not.
Anyway...
Small tank is still on Rid Ich, I never switched that one to Ich Attack since there are no loaches. I can't for the life of me get good photos, but the fish in there do seem to be more classicly affected with Ich. Small white spots in multiple places.chefkeith wrote:What med are you treating the smaller tank with?
This pic (that i found online) is close to what I am seeing in that tank now:
I agree, that probably is ich if it looks like that.
I didn't comment before, but I think the tank water parameters look fine, but he pH from the tap water concerns me. I really don't know what to think yet. It's unusual to see soft water with such a high pH. When you get to it, I'll be interested in seeing the results of the water that is aging in the bucket.
I didn't comment before, but I think the tank water parameters look fine, but he pH from the tap water concerns me. I really don't know what to think yet. It's unusual to see soft water with such a high pH. When you get to it, I'll be interested in seeing the results of the water that is aging in the bucket.
Tap water that is so soft, but high pH is often created by the water company. Acidic water is worse for their pipes.
Most recent tests on my tap water:
GH = 4
KH = 5
pH = 8
Last summer a friend on a related water system had the same GH and KH with a pH of 9.
Most recent tests on my tap water:
GH = 4
KH = 5
pH = 8
Last summer a friend on a related water system had the same GH and KH with a pH of 9.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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Holdstrong
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24 hrs later the ph has dropped down within measurable range of the high range test.
8.6ish
Going to leave it out for another 24 hours and will post again.
Tanks in various states of distress right now. Skinny loach really looks like he won't make it - no signs of ich though.
The hospital tank, with the more obvious signs of ich (I think) is down to two cards and the 4 serp tetras. All of the Rasboras are gone.
I'll keep at it.
Diana, does your tap come down in PH over time? How do you treat or adjust for yours?
8.6ish
Going to leave it out for another 24 hours and will post again.
Tanks in various states of distress right now. Skinny loach really looks like he won't make it - no signs of ich though.
The hospital tank, with the more obvious signs of ich (I think) is down to two cards and the 4 serp tetras. All of the Rasboras are gone.
I'll keep at it.
Diana, does your tap come down in PH over time? How do you treat or adjust for yours?
My tap water pH does not change over time.
I have Soil Master Select as a substrate and this removes KH (down to 0 degrees) and seems to take out whatever the water company adds to make the pH so high. In SMS tanks the pH will hover around 6.0 (bottom of the test) when the KH hits 0 degrees.
I am also playing around with adding Seachem Discus Buffer.
Unfortunately it is raising the TDS, and I would prefer not to add more stuff that way. However it will drop the pH right down, but no significant difference in KH or GH. This is not clouding the water, either, as can happen when playing around with pH altering materials. Anyway, since "acidic water" fish are really looking for low TDS, low GH, and are not actually looking for acidic water this is not the answer.
In the past I had an RO system, it was a rather complex one with a very good quality pre-filter, not just a sodium exchange softener, and the water that came out of the pre-filter was great for most fish, had just enough GH and KH for soft water fish. I used straight tap water (with dechlor) and a little Seachem Equilibrium made it right for hard water fish.
RO was an old membrane and a little stuff was getting through, (GH and KH around 1 degree, trace of color showing on the chlorine test) so I still used dechlor, but I used RO for my Discus when they were young.
I have Soil Master Select as a substrate and this removes KH (down to 0 degrees) and seems to take out whatever the water company adds to make the pH so high. In SMS tanks the pH will hover around 6.0 (bottom of the test) when the KH hits 0 degrees.
I am also playing around with adding Seachem Discus Buffer.
Unfortunately it is raising the TDS, and I would prefer not to add more stuff that way. However it will drop the pH right down, but no significant difference in KH or GH. This is not clouding the water, either, as can happen when playing around with pH altering materials. Anyway, since "acidic water" fish are really looking for low TDS, low GH, and are not actually looking for acidic water this is not the answer.
In the past I had an RO system, it was a rather complex one with a very good quality pre-filter, not just a sodium exchange softener, and the water that came out of the pre-filter was great for most fish, had just enough GH and KH for soft water fish. I used straight tap water (with dechlor) and a little Seachem Equilibrium made it right for hard water fish.
RO was an old membrane and a little stuff was getting through, (GH and KH around 1 degree, trace of color showing on the chlorine test) so I still used dechlor, but I used RO for my Discus when they were young.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
Sorry to hear about more loses.
So ich is confirmed to be in the tanks?
Either way, if these were my fish, I'd be treating all the tanks with salt. I probably would of started the salt treatment weeks ago at the 1st sign of ich when the flashing started. If new fish were introduced into my system, I wouldn't even wait for ich spots to appear. That's just me though because I got some big tanks and ich has wiped them out before.
I'd leave the salt in the tank for at least a few weeks. Dosage is 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water. This will need to be added slowly, like over the coarse of a few days. What's nice about salt is that it doesn't wear off like medications do. You can use salt with activated carbon also.
If I were you, I'd do a small water change, add some activated carbon to the filters, then start the salt treatment. Change the activated carbon every few days.
Links for salt treatment-
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
http://www.geocities.com/chefkeithallen ... lator.html
The tough part is the water changes since the pH for your tap water is so high. You'll need to be extra carefull with that and do them very slowly. I'd do drip water changes.
So ich is confirmed to be in the tanks?
Either way, if these were my fish, I'd be treating all the tanks with salt. I probably would of started the salt treatment weeks ago at the 1st sign of ich when the flashing started. If new fish were introduced into my system, I wouldn't even wait for ich spots to appear. That's just me though because I got some big tanks and ich has wiped them out before.
I'd leave the salt in the tank for at least a few weeks. Dosage is 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of water. This will need to be added slowly, like over the coarse of a few days. What's nice about salt is that it doesn't wear off like medications do. You can use salt with activated carbon also.
If I were you, I'd do a small water change, add some activated carbon to the filters, then start the salt treatment. Change the activated carbon every few days.
Links for salt treatment-
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
http://www.geocities.com/chefkeithallen ... lator.html
The tough part is the water changes since the pH for your tap water is so high. You'll need to be extra carefull with that and do them very slowly. I'd do drip water changes.
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Holdstrong
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Ohhhhh heck, beats me if it is really ich. 
It's a best guess at this point. I'm not seeing a breakout in the main tank... just the flashing (still going on) and those 1 or 2 spots on the loaches (which I'm not sure are still there). The fish I moved to the hospital tank seem to have more classical signs of it and have been dying off... and since they came from the main tank, I'm assuming that it is the cause of the flashing and occasional spots I see there.
At any rate, I've tried everything else I can think of. Almost 3 weeks of rid ich, a week+ of ich attack, and a UV sterilizer.
Salt seems like the next thing to try.
I'm doing my best to leave buckets out to at least start the ph drop, and I plan on doing small water changes.
It's a best guess at this point. I'm not seeing a breakout in the main tank... just the flashing (still going on) and those 1 or 2 spots on the loaches (which I'm not sure are still there). The fish I moved to the hospital tank seem to have more classical signs of it and have been dying off... and since they came from the main tank, I'm assuming that it is the cause of the flashing and occasional spots I see there.
At any rate, I've tried everything else I can think of. Almost 3 weeks of rid ich, a week+ of ich attack, and a UV sterilizer.
Salt seems like the next thing to try.
I'm doing my best to leave buckets out to at least start the ph drop, and I plan on doing small water changes.
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Holdstrong
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Ok, just to clarify.
I need 2 teaspoons per gallon, which for me (75g) is somewhere around 140 teaspoons. (Assuming at least 5 gallons of displacement from driftwood, substrate, etc and lowering the level to get splash.)
Now, doing this over... lets say 3 days... would I just add this in thirds? 46tsp day 1, 46tsp day 2, 46tsp day 3?
I assume I do no water changes during this time? Or, if I do, do I add salt to the amount of water I am adding?
I need 2 teaspoons per gallon, which for me (75g) is somewhere around 140 teaspoons. (Assuming at least 5 gallons of displacement from driftwood, substrate, etc and lowering the level to get splash.)
Now, doing this over... lets say 3 days... would I just add this in thirds? 46tsp day 1, 46tsp day 2, 46tsp day 3?
I assume I do no water changes during this time? Or, if I do, do I add salt to the amount of water I am adding?
140 tsp =
2.91 cups
I would dissolve 1 cup of salt in a couple of cups of hot water and pour in perhaps a couple of ounces every hour, all day long.
Next day, repeat, next day repeat.
If you want to combine 10% water changes (assume 7 gallons) with this:
Day 1: Do the water change first.
Day 2: Do the water change before adding more salt. Add salt to the new water @ 2/3 tsp per gallon. (7 gallons = 4.5 teaspoons) This matches what you put in the tank on day 1.
Then add today's 1 cup of salt slowly, like you did yesterday.
Day 3: Do the water change before adding more salt. Add salt to the new water @ 4/3 tsp per gallon. (7 gallons = 9 teaspoons) This matches what you put in the tank on day 1+2.
Then add today's 1 cup of salt slowly, like you did yesterday.
From here on out when doing water changes add 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of new water.
At this very high level of salt I would remove it VERY slowly at the end of treatment.
2.91 cups
I would dissolve 1 cup of salt in a couple of cups of hot water and pour in perhaps a couple of ounces every hour, all day long.
Next day, repeat, next day repeat.
If you want to combine 10% water changes (assume 7 gallons) with this:
Day 1: Do the water change first.
Day 2: Do the water change before adding more salt. Add salt to the new water @ 2/3 tsp per gallon. (7 gallons = 4.5 teaspoons) This matches what you put in the tank on day 1.
Then add today's 1 cup of salt slowly, like you did yesterday.
Day 3: Do the water change before adding more salt. Add salt to the new water @ 4/3 tsp per gallon. (7 gallons = 9 teaspoons) This matches what you put in the tank on day 1+2.
Then add today's 1 cup of salt slowly, like you did yesterday.
From here on out when doing water changes add 2 teaspoons of salt per gallon of new water.
At this very high level of salt I would remove it VERY slowly at the end of treatment.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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Holdstrong
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- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:36 am
- Location: Boston, MA
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Yes, water changes. 20% water changes are fine, 10% is even better.
You can do a few 20% water changes each day after the treatment is over. It takes about 14 - 20% water changes to get most of the salt out of the water.
Loaches usually look amazing after a salt treatment. This treatment will also remove blemishes or black freckles that are under the slime coat. It will kill a number of other parasites also, such as costia and velvet.
If want to treat your skinny loach again, there are other treatments beside Levamisole or Flubenol. Those 2 meds only treat for round worms. The next step is to treat for flat worms. which Prazipro (praziquantel) is effective against. Prazi will kill off any flatworms and flukes that may be infecting the fish. It's safe to use with salt and isn't harsh on any fish. You'll need to get the other meds out with activated carbon before starting a prazi treatment.
You can do a few 20% water changes each day after the treatment is over. It takes about 14 - 20% water changes to get most of the salt out of the water.
Loaches usually look amazing after a salt treatment. This treatment will also remove blemishes or black freckles that are under the slime coat. It will kill a number of other parasites also, such as costia and velvet.
If want to treat your skinny loach again, there are other treatments beside Levamisole or Flubenol. Those 2 meds only treat for round worms. The next step is to treat for flat worms. which Prazipro (praziquantel) is effective against. Prazi will kill off any flatworms and flukes that may be infecting the fish. It's safe to use with salt and isn't harsh on any fish. You'll need to get the other meds out with activated carbon before starting a prazi treatment.
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BotiaMaximus
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I did chefkeith's salt treatment from his homepage on my two tanks as a prophylactic treatment for parasites once I got them fully stocked and it went without any troubles or signs of stress to the fish. The last fish I added were 5 kubs and after a few days in the tank I saw them flash a couple times - no visible spots, but didn't even want to go there. I also didn't want to pull my chemical filtration or jeopardize my biological with chemical treatment. I decided to treat both tanks at once for peace of mind.
My main tank is a 75 so the dose came up to 2.91 cups of salt - I made this an even 3 (I don't think this was overdoing it?) I split the dose - 1.5 cups each into 2 gallons of distilled water that I heated up by leaving on the roof of my car in the sun for a couple of hours to help it dissolve. I used airline tubing and a flow regulator like chef shows on his page to drip the saltwater into the tank. I let the drip line drop right in front of one the filter returns. With my drip timing it was a little over 36 hours for the two gallons to empty into the tank.
During the whole time (18days) at full strength including 1 full strength water change the fish acted completely normal, never lost appetite, and never saw any change in my ammonia,nitrite levels - always zero.
I think with as much chemicals as your tank has seen that the salt treatment might be a good way to go.
My main tank is a 75 so the dose came up to 2.91 cups of salt - I made this an even 3 (I don't think this was overdoing it?) I split the dose - 1.5 cups each into 2 gallons of distilled water that I heated up by leaving on the roof of my car in the sun for a couple of hours to help it dissolve. I used airline tubing and a flow regulator like chef shows on his page to drip the saltwater into the tank. I let the drip line drop right in front of one the filter returns. With my drip timing it was a little over 36 hours for the two gallons to empty into the tank.
During the whole time (18days) at full strength including 1 full strength water change the fish acted completely normal, never lost appetite, and never saw any change in my ammonia,nitrite levels - always zero.
I think with as much chemicals as your tank has seen that the salt treatment might be a good way to go.
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