dead red tail shark

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ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

dead red tail shark

Post by ridium » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:29 pm

tonight i suffered my first fish death my boy was devastated and my fiance too :(

my red tail shark suddenly started gasping at the top of the tank , and went almost white. i tried to react quickly but he sadly passed away. He had been really quiet since i got him a week ago, he stayed in the tunnel and no one really saw him eat. i have no idea why it died so tested the water levels, after a 30% water change ( did change quickly to stop any others dying )

PH 7.5 ( tested on wider liquid kit )
nirite = 0.3
Amonia = 0
nirate = 5

any ideas why he died? im pretty new to the hobby so am still learning,

My 2nd bad news today was i took delivery of 5 young Botia Kubotai from a local store added them to loach tank to suddenly notice all were suffering from whitespot, they were quickly removed from loach tank and put in a small breeding tank to be treated :( not a great day roll on tomorrow :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:00 pm

RTS pale and gasping sounds like it was not getting enough oxygen.
.3 ppm Nitrite AFTER a water change says it was even higher before the water change.
Nitrite enters the blood and causes Brown Blood Disease. This means the blood is not able to carry oxygen very well.

Add 1 teaspoon of salt (sodium chloride) per 20 gallons to reduce the amount of nitrite that crosses the gills, and keep up the water changes until the tank is fully cycled. This may mean daily water changes or every other day to keep the nitrite as low as possible.

Once the tank has grown a bigger population of nitrifying bacteria you will test 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite, and the nitrates will rise. Do enough water changes (frequency and volume) to keep the nitrates under 20 ppm.

High temperature will also reduce the amount of oxygen in the water. RTS can handle a farily wide temperature range, but the warmer the water the more water movement there ought to be to keep it well oxygenated.

Watch the tank where you put the Ich infested fish very carefully. Even a brief exposure is enough to spread Ich. A few Ich organisms may have fallen off these fish in the short time they were in the tank.
This is why fish need to be quarantined, not simply added to the main tank the day you buy them.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

Post by ridium » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:39 am

thanks Diana, you were right the other fish have started to show spots. Im now treating both tanks and keeping fingers crossed. unfortunately my smallest Kubotai died last night. the other 4 are about an inch bigger and doing well.

ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

Post by ridium » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:31 pm

another kubotai died tonight , seemed to sort of spasm and shoot around the tank before going all limp, theres a lot of surface movement in tank and surface bubbles , but im thinking its an oxigen problem, can anyone recommend a good filter for a 142l tank? the one i have came with it and doesnt look the best of things

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:19 pm

Depends on where you are, but some general guidelines:
I aim at 10 times the tank volume per hour for the water movement, and add even more for a river tank.

A filter (canister, HOB or other) that has a thick mass of media is better than any cartridge style of media.

I like the Aquaclear filters for their large volume, and reliable performance. The thick sponge is really good at trapping the debris, and the filter is easy to clean. If something breaks (rare) the parts are readily available.

The Eheim canisters have a good reputation, but I find them under powered. By the time I get a big enough one (enough gallons per hour) the cost is so high, I can go with more than one of the Aquaclear filters.

For a much larger set up a remote filter/pump can be larger, and a bit noisier if needed, and you can get a lot of water movement, and easy cleaning without having to get the filter out from under the cabinet.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

Post by ridium » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:50 am

i have now added a fluval u3. unfortunately my LFS doesnt sell the aquaclear filters and i needed something quickly , the fish are now looking alot more happy, im worried that these Kubotai were a bad lot, only 1 remaining , the guy at the shop said his botia striata's were not for sale due to alot of deaths and didnt expect the last 2 to live , maybe the kubotai's were the same, his response to me notifying him of the white spot ( being the gentleman i am didnt want any of his fish being sold with it.) and the deaths of 4 of the 5 kubotai was oh well you shouldnt of bought them then charming!! :evil: :evil:

ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

Post by ridium » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:54 pm

my gourami and 2 rainbowfish are now looking worse for wear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz94VCNYVuQ

made a video as running out of ideas.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Post by Diana » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:30 am

Well, there certainly is something going through your fish, moving fast enough to infect and kill them this fast suggests bacteria rather than parasites. (Though both may be present)

I see a couple of options:

1) Try treating with whichever antibiotics you can, and if this does not take care of it sterilize the tank, and get a different antibiotic for the new fish. If this antibiotic does cure them then EVERY TIME you get new fish quarantine and treat. NEVER add new fish directly to the main tank. Get a UV sterilizer fro the main tank.

2) Let it run its course. :-(
You may lose all the fish. When you want to restock have antibiotics on hand, and treat all the fish as you get them, in a quarantine tank. You might decide to treat with both antibiotics and anti-parasite medicines while the fish are in the quarantine tank. (really good idea)
Get a UV sterilizer for the main tank.

There may be more than one thing going on here. The fish may be stressed from several things, allowing one disease to finally take over and kill them. Here are a few possibilities:

Mycobacteriosis: A disease similar to tuberculosis, and sometimes called "Fish TB". It infects the fish, but does not usually kill them fast. They even grow, and seem OK for a while. However the infection weakens them and they are more susceptible to any other disease or parasite that may also infect them, and they are more sensitive to changes and stresses such as the chase/capture/bag and new water conditions that happen when they move from store to home. They went through similar stress in moving from the hatchery to the wholesaler, then from the wholesaler to the store. The accumulating stress and low level infection leaves them very vulnerable to infection by other bacteria, parasites or anything else.

Stress from acclimation. When the water chemistry is different through all those moves the fish need time to adapt. If the changes are too extreme they cannot adapt, and they die. Make sure the fish have been at the store for at least a week, longer is better, and are active and eating. Test the TDS, GH and KH in the water from the store (in the bag when you buy fish) and make your quarantine tank match the store water as closely as you can. If you cannot match it, then slightly harder water, slightly higher TDS, GH and KH will be better than softer water. Fish can acclimate to harder water easier than softer water. Then drip-acclimate the fish. While they are in quarantine, being treated for whatever diseases and parasites they are bringing with them slowly change the water chemistry to match your main tank. This may take a month or more.

Intestinal parasites. Many fish (especially bottom feeders) bring a light load of parasites with them. These do not stress the fish as long as conditions are pretty good. When other stressful things happen, though, the fish immunity has a harder time fighting off the parasites (and all the other diseases) so the parasites grow faster, can reproduce, and the fish may pick up a larger load of parasites, or more than one species (especially if they are kept with a central filtration system for even a short while). While the fish are in quarantine, treat for internal parasites.

Other generalities:
Do not buy inbred or line bred varieties of fish. The specialty colors of Dwarf Gouramis are an example. To fix the genetics of that particular color the fish are too closely related, and the gene pool is so small that any weakness at all is also concentrated, so the fish are not as strong as their wild ancestors. "Balloon" species are similarly inbred, and also have distorted internal organs, and often misshapen spines. Painted, dyed or tattooed fish are subjected to toxins and stress that can kill them, too.

Look at all the tanks in a store. Ask about the filtration. If the fish you are interested in are on a common filter with some diseased fish do not buy them. If you are willing to quarantine and prepared to treat them, and the fish you like look fine, it is a risk you are walking into with your eyes open: You know the fish have been exposed to whatever the other fish have.

If you can find a local breeder of the fish you like you will likely find healthier fish, and may already be acclimated to your water. Often aquarium clubs are a good way to meet local breeders.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ridium
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:47 pm
Location: Ipswich , England

Post by ridium » Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:07 pm

thank you , diana your knowledge and help has been invaluable, we have shut down the main tank moved the last of the fish to the " sick bed " as my little one calls it, they are all being treated for Bacteria, the main tank has been stripped down and is being sterilised we have gone from 22 fish to just 11 in 3 days. 5 yoyo's 4 Melanotaenia Praecox , 1 plec , 1 cory. We are treating them with myxazin from waterlife, i have also dried out the tank and used this stuff neat on it to try to kill off anything remaining on the tank, the tank is to be dried out for the next 48 hours to ensure everything is dead.

I just hope the remaining fish all respond well to the treatment as the last few days have been really upsetting and almost made my partner and myself question why did we bother taking up the hobby it was ment to be a relaxing enjoyable thing.

i will also look into the UV steraliser.

Thanks again for your help :D

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