I'm planning to start setting up the final clown tank in perhaps a month or two, and would like to plan this one more carefully than I did in the past; so suggestions are asked for.
The hope is that this tank will be the final one, not to be changed in the future. I'd like to decide up front how the tank will be set up and the list of the inhabitants to avoid any further decision making in the future.
The current plan is to go with 125g (6"), sand/unplanted (artificial plants), two canister filters, probably a powerhead as well. (Should it be 125g or a larger 6" tank?)
The tank will host some of the fish that currently resides in other tanks here and some new (which will need to be decided upon yet).
Some fish that currently resides here and will go to the main tank:
* 6 clowns (2.5"-4")
* 5 yoyos (3")
* 1 common pleco (9")
It is also possible to move there
* 8 kubotais (1.5"-3")
* 7 3" danios
* BN's
My feeling is that it may be best to let the kubotai's inherit the current 65g and possibly add some smaller botias there (striatas?) rather than put them where they will be always suppressed by larger botias.
OTOH, it may be possible to add some larger (perhaps semiaggressive) botias to the new tank, and the question is which one(s).
The possibilities I see are
* Modestas
* Tigers (prob. hymenophysa)
* Taeniaps
* Horses
* ???
What would you do?
(In all cases, I'd rather choose on the side of safety, so no skunks, or eos, and no loaches under 2". Of course, I can also add more clowns or yoyo's but I'd rather like to have at least one more species -- may be this is being too greedy?)
Then, there is also the question of the dither. I can use my large danios (but rather not -- I don't think I can find exactly my kind, and 7 is not enough for the 6" tank). Striped barbs is one option being considered -- did anyone ever keep them with clowns? Some kind of rainbow fish is another option.
Any suggestions and criticism are invited.
Planning next botia tank -- suggestions invited
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
125 is nice, but heres somethin to consider...
A typical size for a 150g is 72"x24"x20". The 125 is 72"x18"x20".
So you get an extra 6"x72" (or 3 square feet) of floor space for the loaches w/only 25 extra gallons of water. =)
For a dither I might check out some kinda barbs. Tiger barbs are readily available, will eat anything, school together, are a good size, and are very active. The only problem is they are ravenous eaters. Any time I put frozen food in the tank I have to use a baster to squirt it in the loaches hiding spots directly, or else the tiger barbs will eat everything before the loaches even know its in the water.
O_O
A typical size for a 150g is 72"x24"x20". The 125 is 72"x18"x20".
So you get an extra 6"x72" (or 3 square feet) of floor space for the loaches w/only 25 extra gallons of water. =)
For a dither I might check out some kinda barbs. Tiger barbs are readily available, will eat anything, school together, are a good size, and are very active. The only problem is they are ravenous eaters. Any time I put frozen food in the tank I have to use a baster to squirt it in the loaches hiding spots directly, or else the tiger barbs will eat everything before the loaches even know its in the water.
O_O
My personal choice would be boesmani rainbows for the dither. They are so beautiful, and the males look so insane when they are fully mature.
A tiger and/or modestas are what I would lean toward as an additional species. I wouldn't think it to be too selfish, but thats just me. There would be enough room to have enough numbers for all to be comfortable, especially if you went with the 150, and also if you went with the 65 as your smaller "botia" tank.
A tiger and/or modestas are what I would lean toward as an additional species. I wouldn't think it to be too selfish, but thats just me. There would be enough room to have enough numbers for all to be comfortable, especially if you went with the 150, and also if you went with the 65 as your smaller "botia" tank.
Thanks!
Yeap, 150 does make sense, I think I should be able to fit it in.
Bosemani's is one of the options being considered. My wife saw them yesterday at a store for the first time and liked them quite a lot...so it is one argument in that direction. Tiger barbs are certainly out since I'm not particularly fond of them and she finds them ugly.
As for Tiger/Modesta: which one is safer if either -- this is the question.... And in each case what is the number/size to keep them from creating trouble?
Any opinion on Taeniaps? I know a store around here that has a couple and is not likely to ever sell them with their price tag. Keeps them in two separate tanks since they try to kill each other...but 150g is probably large enough to avoid this problem, and **I think** they would not attack other Botias... Does anyone know?
Yeap, 150 does make sense, I think I should be able to fit it in.
Bosemani's is one of the options being considered. My wife saw them yesterday at a store for the first time and liked them quite a lot...so it is one argument in that direction. Tiger barbs are certainly out since I'm not particularly fond of them and she finds them ugly.
As for Tiger/Modesta: which one is safer if either -- this is the question.... And in each case what is the number/size to keep them from creating trouble?
Any opinion on Taeniaps? I know a store around here that has a couple and is not likely to ever sell them with their price tag. Keeps them in two separate tanks since they try to kill each other...but 150g is probably large enough to avoid this problem, and **I think** they would not attack other Botias... Does anyone know?
Unsure this is true.
I googled for this a bit, and the first two hits were from people that keep them at 76F -- this is fine for clowns. There is also an excellent profile here:
http://www.wetpetz.com/bosemani.htm
and it says: 25C-30C, which is essentially the clown range.
Ph may be more problematic--this profiel says: 7.0-9.0, but reading it more carefully reveals that some specimen came from 6.4-6.6. See also this guy:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/75g.htm
keeps them at 6.8 -- again, fine for clowns. So this actually may be an option. You can see from the page that he knows what he is doing.
-----
I guess we'll need to type in your wiki's, the info out there is confusing..
I googled for this a bit, and the first two hits were from people that keep them at 76F -- this is fine for clowns. There is also an excellent profile here:
http://www.wetpetz.com/bosemani.htm
and it says: 25C-30C, which is essentially the clown range.
Ph may be more problematic--this profiel says: 7.0-9.0, but reading it more carefully reveals that some specimen came from 6.4-6.6. See also this guy:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/75g.htm
keeps them at 6.8 -- again, fine for clowns. So this actually may be an option. You can see from the page that he knows what he is doing.
-----
I guess we'll need to type in your wiki's, the info out there is confusing..
im also contemplating dither fish, and found this written about rainbowfishes:
Rainbowfish-Rainbow fish are actually decent dither fish if you have enough of them. However, enough would be something like 15-20 of them:) Rainbowfish are for the most part very shy by nature and more likely to add to the spooked fish feeling of your tank than they are to remove it.
http://www.theaquarians.net/Articlesand ... r_fish.htm
Rainbowfish-Rainbow fish are actually decent dither fish if you have enough of them. However, enough would be something like 15-20 of them:) Rainbowfish are for the most part very shy by nature and more likely to add to the spooked fish feeling of your tank than they are to remove it.
http://www.theaquarians.net/Articlesand ... r_fish.htm
Thanks, libingboy.
A pretty good page. Any idea of what is the *average* adult size of Boesemanis? It occurs to me that if they are under 3", having 15 of them in a 150g tank is not too unreasanable (no other dither, of course).
====
Anyone willing to say a word on the relative dangers of Tigers and Modestas in a Clown/Yoyo tank?
A pretty good page. Any idea of what is the *average* adult size of Boesemanis? It occurs to me that if they are under 3", having 15 of them in a 150g tank is not too unreasanable (no other dither, of course).
====
Anyone willing to say a word on the relative dangers of Tigers and Modestas in a Clown/Yoyo tank?
http://groups.msn.com/Breedingtropicalf ... ishes.msnw
Above is a link to a very old article, but has decent information and mentions some 7" wild caught boesmanis. If I went with these, I would not get 15, just in case they do actually thrive that well, which they hopefully would. Then again, you don't want to go with too few, in case you lost a few before they got to be giants. The size, though, may make you want to reconsider depending on how many loaches you're set on having. The rainbows would be dither, after all, but if you'd consider them almost as enjoyable as the loaches (which I would suspect could happen to me if they were mine), then it could be worth it.
Above is a link to a very old article, but has decent information and mentions some 7" wild caught boesmanis. If I went with these, I would not get 15, just in case they do actually thrive that well, which they hopefully would. Then again, you don't want to go with too few, in case you lost a few before they got to be giants. The size, though, may make you want to reconsider depending on how many loaches you're set on having. The rainbows would be dither, after all, but if you'd consider them almost as enjoyable as the loaches (which I would suspect could happen to me if they were mine), then it could be worth it.
-
DancesAlone
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:44 pm
- Location: Wisconsin USA
This may help you in addition to all of the greatinfo posted so far.
2 125 gallons.
The first houses the following:
8 Clowns
4 YoYo's
1 Angel
3 Lg. 4.5" Rainbows - 1 Marci and 2 Mac Melatonae sp?)
1 Bushynose.
Posted on this tank a bit ago here, the tank is past capacity. The fish that are in there have been there for 3+ years and were all juvenilles, except for 2 clowns that were trade-ins and larger. The YoYo's are 7 inches, the 2 biggest clowns slightly larger. Originally there were 8 Rainbows, lost 5 a bit ago when have water issues (well water) The time frames, growth rates ect. IMHO have to do more with care, feeding and water quality then the fact sheets.
Filtration is 2 Filstar XP-3's, 1 Emperor 400, 1 330 Penguin and Aqua Clear Power Head. This tank is not planted, tried but the clowns have always destroyed everything put in there, lol!
I'd go for the larger tank and be careful when stocking.
The second 125 houses the following:
6 Boesemani Rainbow
9 Praecox
5 Striata
2 upside down cats
1 female angel
3 Metae Cories and fry (they are small like Pandas)
1 Agazzi Cory and 1 Julli Cory
3 SAE
Once again this tank has reached capacity!! It is also planted. Filtration is 2 Filstar XP 3's, 1 newer model Penguin 350, 1 Tetra-Tec 300, and one Aqua Clear powerhead.
I'm currently raising both Praecox and Boesemani fry in another tank. The Boesemani are quite large, approx. 4inches. They are also very slow growing rainbows in comparison to Praecox. The Praecox stay small, 2-3 inches.
These fish are also 3 years old, awhile ago I lost several Praecox to an untreatable affliction that affected only them. At one time I had 16 of them.
Here are my water parameters: (these rainbows were all raised in this water as were the rest of the above fish mentioned)
PH 6.8 DH less than 25ppm (believe that is around 3-4 degrees of hardness) soft water. Temp 80 degrees. They have thrived and grown well. Water exchanges are done weekly, 50 gallons at a time. Media is exchanged monthly, filters are rinsed every 10-14 days. These Rainbows are not at all shy or reclusive. Front and center if anyone even Walks by the tank. They are quite pesty when cleaning too, always too close investigating whats being done. Scraping any algae with a razor blade is tough with these guys!
Rainbows are great fish and the more you have the greater the show! They are quite active and spawn all the time. The Boesemani are also more aggresive, the males anyways. They chase the others around more then the Praecox. Most all of this is due to the spawning activity.
Hope this will help you in your decisions. I've always appreciated first hand info in addition to the actual data/fact sheets. Best of luck with your adventure! There are some others here who keep loaches and rainbows together, hopefully they will have time to give you there experiences also.
2 125 gallons.
The first houses the following:
8 Clowns
4 YoYo's
1 Angel
3 Lg. 4.5" Rainbows - 1 Marci and 2 Mac Melatonae sp?)
1 Bushynose.
Posted on this tank a bit ago here, the tank is past capacity. The fish that are in there have been there for 3+ years and were all juvenilles, except for 2 clowns that were trade-ins and larger. The YoYo's are 7 inches, the 2 biggest clowns slightly larger. Originally there were 8 Rainbows, lost 5 a bit ago when have water issues (well water) The time frames, growth rates ect. IMHO have to do more with care, feeding and water quality then the fact sheets.
Filtration is 2 Filstar XP-3's, 1 Emperor 400, 1 330 Penguin and Aqua Clear Power Head. This tank is not planted, tried but the clowns have always destroyed everything put in there, lol!
I'd go for the larger tank and be careful when stocking.
The second 125 houses the following:
6 Boesemani Rainbow
9 Praecox
5 Striata
2 upside down cats
1 female angel
3 Metae Cories and fry (they are small like Pandas)
1 Agazzi Cory and 1 Julli Cory
3 SAE
Once again this tank has reached capacity!! It is also planted. Filtration is 2 Filstar XP 3's, 1 newer model Penguin 350, 1 Tetra-Tec 300, and one Aqua Clear powerhead.
I'm currently raising both Praecox and Boesemani fry in another tank. The Boesemani are quite large, approx. 4inches. They are also very slow growing rainbows in comparison to Praecox. The Praecox stay small, 2-3 inches.
These fish are also 3 years old, awhile ago I lost several Praecox to an untreatable affliction that affected only them. At one time I had 16 of them.
Here are my water parameters: (these rainbows were all raised in this water as were the rest of the above fish mentioned)
PH 6.8 DH less than 25ppm (believe that is around 3-4 degrees of hardness) soft water. Temp 80 degrees. They have thrived and grown well. Water exchanges are done weekly, 50 gallons at a time. Media is exchanged monthly, filters are rinsed every 10-14 days. These Rainbows are not at all shy or reclusive. Front and center if anyone even Walks by the tank. They are quite pesty when cleaning too, always too close investigating whats being done. Scraping any algae with a razor blade is tough with these guys!
Rainbows are great fish and the more you have the greater the show! They are quite active and spawn all the time. The Boesemani are also more aggresive, the males anyways. They chase the others around more then the Praecox. Most all of this is due to the spawning activity.
Hope this will help you in your decisions. I've always appreciated first hand info in addition to the actual data/fact sheets. Best of luck with your adventure! There are some others here who keep loaches and rainbows together, hopefully they will have time to give you there experiences also.
Older now but still running against the wind....
***************************************
Dance like no one is watching
Sing like no one is listening
and Live each day like it's your last
***************************************
***************************************
Dance like no one is watching
Sing like no one is listening
and Live each day like it's your last
***************************************
Thanks a lot, this gives me a lot to go on.
A question to Pedzola:
where did you see
DancesAlone: thanks a lot for describing your setups, this is close to what I had in mind. I did a bit of checking on Rainbows, and my LFS friend suggested that the right way to go about it is with about five Boesmanis and the equal number of a smaller (2"-3") species; he claims that they will actually scoal together. If this is true, this may be the way to go ahead.
A question to Pedzola:
where did you see
??? I checked on 150g, it seems to be the same footprint as 120g, just higher. This makes it harder to service and not much better for loaches (and also costs much more). Is the tank you are thinking about some custom or acrilic job?A typical size for a 150g is 72"x24"x20".
DancesAlone: thanks a lot for describing your setups, this is close to what I had in mind. I did a bit of checking on Rainbows, and my LFS friend suggested that the right way to go about it is with about five Boesmanis and the equal number of a smaller (2"-3") species; he claims that they will actually scoal together. If this is true, this may be the way to go ahead.
All right...... I have the thing finally, 125g, still empty.
I guess the next steps would be to put water and fish in it (does the order matter?) but before I do it, I want to think for a week, perhaps some good idea or suggestion will find its way here.
Here is one thing that stops me: I'd like it to be at least partially planted... but the main fish is going to be a now 10" common pleco, which is probably not compatible with most plants, plus the clowns which are not much better in this way, as I was told.
The fish is currently in an unplanted 65g and seems to be doing fine, but it feels that *some* plants will make it healthier long-term (and 125g is meant as a long-term, probably the final tank for them)
Is there anything that I can do? Anything hardy enough to withstand them? I guess bamboo is one idea,...anything else?
(Getting rid of the pleco is not an option -- I don't think anyone would want him, so I'm responsible for the beast and all his poop ...)
I guess the next steps would be to put water and fish in it (does the order matter?) but before I do it, I want to think for a week, perhaps some good idea or suggestion will find its way here.
Here is one thing that stops me: I'd like it to be at least partially planted... but the main fish is going to be a now 10" common pleco, which is probably not compatible with most plants, plus the clowns which are not much better in this way, as I was told.
The fish is currently in an unplanted 65g and seems to be doing fine, but it feels that *some* plants will make it healthier long-term (and 125g is meant as a long-term, probably the final tank for them)
Is there anything that I can do? Anything hardy enough to withstand them? I guess bamboo is one idea,...anything else?
(Getting rid of the pleco is not an option -- I don't think anyone would want him, so I'm responsible for the beast and all his poop ...)
Hey man, sorry I never saw your question before. Wow, the end of June was a long time ago!
I think I got the 150g size from an acrylic tank manufacturer's website. (perhaps tenecor?) I just assumed you were looking at acrylics I guess. I don't think I would ever go glass any larger than my 75g tank. :X
But I guess you did get a glass tank, so I won't start extolling the virtues of acrylic. That would be a neverending debate. lol
So yeah.........
I've never done plants so you're on your own w/that. (hopefully others can help).
If you want to put the fish in right away instead of waiting 6 weeks for a fishless cycle, I recommend checking out Marineland's Bio-Spira. I might have posted before that it didn't work as fast for me as others had claimed, but I suspect it was due to bogus handling on the part of my LFS. What are your plans for tank-cycling?
Also, what kind of filter(s) and other equipment are you running on the tank? Powerhead(s)? Air pump(s)? If you're doing plants, did you get some powerful lights for the thing? How about a stand? Get somethin totally sweet, or basic, or DIY? ^__^
Since I can't sleep I was just thinking about a future tank. So its interesting that I came across your thread just now. -__^
When I graduate in a couple years w/my MBA I hope to have enough $$ to put together the sweetest loach tank evar. Or maybe just that acrylic 150g I mentioned previously. Along w/one of those huge Eheim filters and a crazy aquarium controllerto email me if anything ever goes wrong.
:X I got a couple years to think about that tho. Tell us about your new tank! O_O!
I think I got the 150g size from an acrylic tank manufacturer's website. (perhaps tenecor?) I just assumed you were looking at acrylics I guess. I don't think I would ever go glass any larger than my 75g tank. :X
But I guess you did get a glass tank, so I won't start extolling the virtues of acrylic. That would be a neverending debate. lol
So yeah.........
I've never done plants so you're on your own w/that. (hopefully others can help).
If you want to put the fish in right away instead of waiting 6 weeks for a fishless cycle, I recommend checking out Marineland's Bio-Spira. I might have posted before that it didn't work as fast for me as others had claimed, but I suspect it was due to bogus handling on the part of my LFS. What are your plans for tank-cycling?
Also, what kind of filter(s) and other equipment are you running on the tank? Powerhead(s)? Air pump(s)? If you're doing plants, did you get some powerful lights for the thing? How about a stand? Get somethin totally sweet, or basic, or DIY? ^__^
Since I can't sleep I was just thinking about a future tank. So its interesting that I came across your thread just now. -__^
When I graduate in a couple years w/my MBA I hope to have enough $$ to put together the sweetest loach tank evar. Or maybe just that acrylic 150g I mentioned previously. Along w/one of those huge Eheim filters and a crazy aquarium controllerto email me if anything ever goes wrong.
:X I got a couple years to think about that tho. Tell us about your new tank! O_O!
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