Speak up, I can't hear you over the powerhead.

[cloudhands]

We've gone from some small, not loud coralia powerheads, to some better but louder 20 watt ones (maxi jet 1200(, which were already a bit loud for my taste. We've been adding hillstream fish and slowly getting the river tank ready. Today I installed the river manifold with two Aquaclear 110s on it in the 55 G long. These powerheads are 62 watt monsters. The fish love it, but I'm kind of rethinking how much time I want to spend in the livingroom.

I took off one of the aquaclear 110, replacing it with the smaller 20 watt, but it's still way too loud with the remaining aquaclear and the replacement maxi jet.

I'm not sure if connecting the powerhead directly to the pvc of the manifold, as it is, is setting up a resonance that's louder than it might be.

I'm thinking that others with river tanks must be doing something different -- different brands, some way to dampen the sound, something. Otherwise this wouldn't be a very pleasant hobby, or one compatible with normal life including friends, family, and time sitting quietly without a jar of ibuprofen and tylenol at hand.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[plaalye]

I arranged it so the powerhead was connected to the manifold, and the tankside hanger(with suction cups) at the same time. This dampend the vibration. It can take some fiddling with to get it right.

[Diana]

My river tank with an Aquaclear can be noisy if the powerhead vibrates directly against the glass. When the suction cup holder is in place it is pretty quiet.

[JonasBygdemo]

Our AC 110 is almost dead quiet. We don't have a manifold though, but still almost no sound at all.

[cloudhands]

Sticking it to the glass did help. Thanks! I deliberately isolated it from the glass, thinking that would be a source of more resonance, but that was wrong. It's especially good that this tank has very thick glass.

More experimenting to do...

It's good to hear that it doesn't have to be loud. That gives me hope.

[cloudhands]

Resonance of the manifold is the remaining problem. It's a long skinny tank, and the manifold is about the size of a Cello string up to the fret where the sound would be 16 cycles, I think. The manifold is not buried in substrate, but rather partially surrounded by rocks. It may be that completely covering it with small stones or sand would be the trick. I can get it to quiet by a few hundred percent by holding the manifold firmly, and away from the side glass.

[Martin Thoene]

With Aquaclear 802 (aka 110's) I put a short flexible tube section on the T piece that supports the powerhead as an adapter and then sit the powerhead adapter cone down into that. Distance of manifold to end glass needs to be set accurately to allow the suction bracket to fit between the powerhead housing and the glass so that the powerhead is supported in a horizontal position.

It seems the cone sitting in the adapter flex tubing and the suction cups damp out vibration effectively. I've never found excessive noise an issue in over 11 years of running a River-Tank manifold in any tank with Aquaclears.

The ONLY time it's ever been an issue is when the suction cups go hard, drop off the glass and the powerhead and then the powerhead leans back far enough to touch the glass. Because the cone is tapered there's no solid connection to the manifold so it can move without bracket support. Its own suction makes an effective seal in the adapter tube.

Martin.

[cloudhands]

Thank you.

I've quieted it down by quite a bit today, using the suction cups to the glass and also bracing the manifold with the rubber strip cushion leftovers from the powerhead so that it's not so loose or able to contact the aquarium glass directly. Next trip to the hardware store I'll try to find something that can be a damping connector to sit the powerhead onto. I think a gravel or solid small-stone base over the manifold will help a lot too. That's where the sound is. It would muffle it a lot, I'm sure.

I was going to use a hang-on-back aquaclear 150 on this tank, but there isn't enough room between tank and wall. So I traded that for an old fluval canister filter, and I can't get that old fluval to pull water at all. I spent a few hours messing with it. The impeller is turning, doesn't seem to be leaking. I just don't know. Very frustrating day.

[Martin Thoene]

Well you're talking to the right person I've got lots of experience with old-school Fluvals, assuming that's what you mean by "old".

Here's a good educational starting point:

http://www.pondenterprises.com/fluval/fluve1.html

Click on the various Part links to continue. The last sentence in part 3 is the pertinent one here I feel.

You HAVE to get the cannister largely full of water by starting a syphon by sucking on the return hose. Do this before fitting a spraybar. Once water has syphoned into the cannister and mostly filled it you can switch on the power. At this point your impeller will be turning in free air and doing squat.....apart from clattering. You need to get water to it. Because the impeller is at the top of the cannister and trapped full of air, water will never get pumped unless you make it happen. You need enough slack in the pipework to enable you to pick up the cannister and hold it so that the bottom is higher than the top. Ensure that the return outlet is on the high side of the cannister as you hold it. Air will then exit the motor to be replaced by water and at this time liquid will start to flow.

It will be noisey because there's a lot of air still in the system. If you immediately return the cannister right side up the air that exited the motor will gloop right on back in and the impeller will once again freewheel in air. The trick, and one of the most frustrating elements of the design deficiencies in these filters is that returning the cannister to upright status AND maintaining water flow and air expulsion is an arm-breaking exercise that requires finesse and experience to accomplish. You need to listen carefully to what's happening. Too much air noise means too much return to vertical, so back off the tilt a bit till the noise reduces.

Eventually, you'll find that most air gets evacuated and the filter will continue to pump in a vertical position as intended. It will continue to spit and fart for a while, but eventually silence down when full water flow is attained.

Hot Tip: After an hour or so's running give the whole cannister a lift of around an inch and let it drop to the support surface. This will shock tiny residual air bubbles on all the internal components and media into the water flow where they will get picked up and blown out by the impeller. Do it the next day too because you'll likely get even more air out. Once all the internals get fully wet they will not hold onto tiny bubbles like newly installed parts will.

Any further Q's just ask.

The above nuisance quirk of these older Fluval designs is IMO their only issue. I've used them for years and years and they are rock-solid reliable in regular use. They are easily serviced and you can mix and match media easily because of the 3 separate baskets. Older Eheims have far less issues with initial priming due to bottom entry "in" tubes, but their single internal media basket is a PITA when trying to keep media separate. So I'd say good call on buying an older Fluve

Martin.

[cloudhands]

The fluval wouldn't pump because there was a glass marble stuck in the intake side of it. No idea how it got there. I guess it must have been in the hose for a while, which is why it has been so whimpy. I tried to force the marble out by applying pressure with the garden hose on the other side, the outlet. It burst the clamp that holds it together. Too much pressure. Down a filter.

[plaalye]

I think my AC powerhead came with a pliable, black rubber adapter for attaching to undergravel filter risers. If I remember right I stretched it over the manifold riser and set the powerhead down into it. If you didn't get something like that, you could find a piece of tubing at the hdwr store to accomplish the same.

[Martin Thoene]

The fluval wouldn't pump because there was a glass marble stuck in the intake side of it. No idea how it got there. I guess it must have been in the hose for a while, which is why it has been so whimpy. I tried to force the marble out by applying pressure with the garden hose on the other side, the outlet. It burst the clamp that holds it together. Too much pressure. Down a filter.

A marble can certainly rain on your parade

When you say "clamp" do you mean part # 15590 ? (see page 4 of link).

These are easily replaced. Spares available at most good LFS.

Martin.

[cloudhands]

Thank you for all the Fluval wisdom, Martin.

I think though I'm going to end up with a whole new motor housing, about $42 delivered from Ebay. All of the blue plastic on this filter got brittle. I guess it's almost 20 years old. Besides the clamp cracking apart, I've already lost the plastic clamp-down handle-lever for the quick-release thing at the top. It was clamped down at the time. I had already bought a replacement part, but was never able to get that piece out. It's permanently stuck in the motor housing.

That's the piece that has the marble still stuck in it.

[Diana]

I prime the canisters (not just Fluvals) by pumping water into the intake. Pump it long enough that it quite bubbling and water is flowing out through the spray bar. THEN plug in the filter.

Of course this won't help if it is hopelessly plugged, such as by a marble.

[cloudhands]

I was doing that; in desperation I was holding the intake hose against the outlet of the Aquaclear 110 powerhead. I was quite puzzled why water wouldn't even flow through under those conditions.

It had the effect of pushing the marble in there really hard.