botia hymenophysa HELP

[arny]

Hi, i bought a botia from a pet shop about 2 weeks ago and they told me it is a community fish (they didnt say what type of botia it is but i have since identified it as a botia hymenophysa from your website). I put it in my tank thinking it would be fine but then after a few days started attacking my yoyo loach that ive had for 6 years so that was a bit upsetting. i have since separated them. what do you suggest i do. if i buy more b.hymenophysa will the existing one integrate into the shoal? and will the problem of attacking other fish get better or would then the whole shoal attack the other fish? if i bought some more would i be able to then have the yoyo loach with them? or should i take the botia back to the shop?
thanks


p.s. your website is one of the best ive seen i didnt know how i was going to identify this loach but your step by step index is brilliant.

[Sharkscott2]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect you have Syncrossus Hymenophys ( http://www.loaches.com/species-index/sy ... ymenophysa ). As I understand it the Syncrossus (aka tiger loaches) was separated from the Botine grouping not too many years ago.

At a fish store near me this species is being sold as a Queen Botia which is a reasonably peaceful species while the Syncrossus is not.

The Syncrossus loaches tend to be aggressive and territorial towards other fish like them (and maybe some unlike them). I currently keep 8 Syncrossus Berdmori (sold to me as Botia Berdmori)( http://www.loaches.com/species-index/sy ... syncrossus ) in a 40 gallon long set up with no other fish present. They all have their own territories and can often times be heard clicking at each other while squabbling over territories.

If you purchase more Syncrossus the one you have will integrate into their society. Which will likely be similar to what I describe above. Mind you I've never noticed any fin rip or wounds on any of my Berdmori. But they do chase one another and aggressively defend territory against each other.

However I would not place the Yoyo back into the tank with a Syncrossus species. I suspect the Yoyo would get chased around the tank from territory to territory by the Syncrossus. In my research I've heard of several people keeping large clown loaches and more aggressive botine loaches with Syncrossus species. And you can also successfully combine them with hardy fast swimming fish (barbs are a good choice).

I would either return the Yoyo and get more Yoyos or return the Syncrossus and get more of them. Or just keep the two species in separate tanks. They are both worth keeping in my opinion just not together.


Check out these links which I found helpful and inspirational while learning about Tiger Loaches.

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... =grrr+tank

http://www.loaches.com/articles/tigers- ... s-in-crime

[piggy4]

Hi Arny, Sharkscott2's reply is correct ,and very well explained !

I keep a few Berdmorei , and a couple of Beauforti in an asian themed tank and the Syncrossus do spend a fair bit of time chasing about , they share their tank with three Y.morleti [skunks] who though smaller dont seem intimidated by the Syncrossus , and four larger cyprinids who are also not intimidated !

If you have enough tanks then as Sharkscott says separating the two fish is probably the best option !

Can we ever have enough tanks

[arny]

yes its the Syncrossus hymenophysa that i have. i just called it a botia as thats what it was sold to me as. unfortunately the yoyo loach is not a problem as today i found it dead the shock and the wounds were just too much. i dont think the s.hymenophysa was trying to be actively aggressive he was as you said defending his territory but in doing so just wouldnt leave the yoyo alone. the tank that hes in is quite shallow only 1 foot high with lots of other bottom feeders and tetras in there. my other tank is about 3 foot high with a silver dollar and about 10 top feeding fish the only thing that goes on the bottom is the plec. would it be better to move him into the second tank and get some more? and how many would you suggest is having 3 enough?
thanks for your help

[piggy4]

Hi Arney , shame about the Yoyo thats fish keeping though

Loaches are a challenge in this way i.e .finding the ideal balance ! though people on these sites will tell you of their personal expierences , they can't really predict a senario because different layouts present different behavioural patterns in fish , I suppose if you try three of these loaches you will be able to enlighten us , as to your findings , good luck !

[newshound]

i would not get more
they really need a large tank
@ least 100 gallons and a large group (5 plus)

[arny]

you say dont get any more but i have read they need to be with there own kind

[Sharkscott2]

I'm sorry to hear about your Yoyo.


But concerning the Syncrossus, from what research I have done some people suggest keeping tiger loaches singly and some suggest keeping them in groups. If you go with a group the larger the group the better if you have the space. As Newshound says 100+ gallons for a large group which is good advice IMO. I currently keep my 8 young Bermori in a 40 gallon long which is adequate but not ideal. I have every intention of moving them into a 125-180 gallon tank as soon as I can find a local one on Craigslist. Most of these tiger loaches can grow to 6 inches and I believe some can grow to a foot.

Also if you go with a group help them establish territories, make visual barriers with wood and rocks, provide lots of hiding places. This can make the tank feel larger to the fish then what it really is. I use lengths of bamboo in my tank to provide caves for them. For the most part my 8 Berdmori are hidden 90% of the time. I'm hoping once I can get them in a 125 gallon + tank I can coax them out with some dither fish above them.

Also as with most loaches, good filtration, clean water, lots of movement, and aeration help.

[piggy4]

Arny , if you fancy trying them take a chance, whats the worst senario ,you have to net them and return to the shop

[arny]

thanks for all your advise.
today i have moved the loach into the tank that has more hight and is bigger generally it has plants, bogwood, a castle thing, a bridge that the catfish sits under and a hollowed out rock thing that the loach has now taken on as his own. im hoping that as the tank is taller and all the fish bar the catfish are top feeders then the loach can call almost the whole of the bottom his own. i think in the other tank he didnt feel very secure with lots of other bottom feeders and with the tank only being 1 foot tall even the top feeders were close by. we'll see over the next few days, if fins start being ripped ill have to decide whether to take him back or to get more.

also, this has been playing on my mine for a long time now, someone told me fish only grow to the length that the tank allows therefore in theory should never be able to out grow a tank physically (obviously its a different matter if they need lots of swimming space) is this myth or is there a certain amount of truth in it?

thanks for all the help and ill keep you posted on the events of the next few days. im hoping the fish wont have to go back hes lovely (even if he did kill my second favorite fish) i often look for the more unusual looking fish but i really do have a soft spot for loaches

[arny]

the loach is doing well in the other tank. all i need to do now is find a group of yoyos to put into the other tank and will also expand my existing group of koulis

[arny]

sorry Kuhli s

[Sharkscott2]

About fish only growing to the size of the tank. I once heard someone say it's true. "If you have a 4 foot tank your fish won't grow longer than 4 feet long." But obviously you don't want a 4 foot fish in a 4 foot tank. I think growth varies fish to fish and there are many factors to consider. Plan on being able to house a fish which will grow to it's max size but know that not all of them do. For instance none of my Kubotai loaches have ever reached 5 inches which is listed for their max size, a chubby 3.5 seems to be the max for the batch I have.

I'm interested in what kind of catfish you're keeping with your S. Hymenophysa. Right now I keep my S. Berdmori with no other species but once I move them to a larger tank I'd like to add some other fish.

Thanks,

[arny]

the catfish the loach is with is an upside down catfish he doesnt come out very much even in the night. i say to any one that wants one to give it a tube to sit in and place it close to the front of the tank if you ever want to see it (or have a few of them), having said that i have another upside down cat in my other tank that comes out when being fed day or night and hes still going strong after having him for more then 12 years. i would also recommend if you have the space a pangasius catfish or sometimes known as iridescent shark catfish they are a middle feeding catfish and grow really fast unfortunately my last one died a few months ago probably due to old age as it was more then 16 years old and i havent been able to find any more.

but the loach hasnt bothered any fish since the move (no ripped fins etc.) its in with a silver dollar, the upside down catfish, a fairly big plec and 7 congo tetras. the difference in the height of the tank and the fact he has his own hiding place has really helped.

[arny]

just an update
i got another two loaches of the same species and straight away the original loach started attacking them to the point that the other 2 just sat in the top corner of the tank and were clearly very unhappy, so i decided (as i have been thinking about it for over a year now) that i would upgrade to a larger tank and that this was the perfect time to do it as i want to give my loaches the happy life they deserve.
the tank is 270 litres not sure what that is in gallons if you know please tell me as the lfs always ask. its got a big piece of bogwood, plants, rocks and the substrate is sand perfect for the loaches and i have to say its the best decision ive made the loaches are a lot happier often seen lying next to each other. all i have to do now is get more fish once the tank has settled a bit as there are only 24 fish in there and biggest thing by far is a 3 1/2 inch silver dollar
thanks for all the help
im so pleased the tank its so lovely compared to my old tank that i bought 15 years ago from someone who hand made it so it didnt have the sort of finish my brand new tank has. really i have been waiting 12 years for this tank as my husband made a huge shelf for a 6 foot tank 12 years ago but i never got my tank. i know this isnt 6 foot but its a lot closer than the old tank

arny