Wounds on Clown Loach

[codger]

I have 6 Clowns in a 200 litre tank. They were originally from three purchases, the most recent being 10 years ago. The four younger loaches have grown more than the two older representatives. They live together relatively peacefully, at certain times of the year there is some sparring - clicking, mouth-to-mouth tussles etc.

However one of the older fish is picked upon to the extent it has developed scarring on both its sides. Currently there are diamond shaped wounds again on both sides, the worst is about 8-10mm. It was white with dead tissue (not fungus as far as I can tell). It is still hiding but after a day of not seeing more than a tail, it is again actively feeding and dashing away from persecution. That said, I have never seen this fish in any of the sparring.

I guess these wounds are caused by eye-spikes; is there anything I can do to mitigate this? The tanks is (over)grown and has many hiding places. I have wondered if I have a 4 female/2 male split and 'he' is the submissive male - anything in that?

I plan to keep water changes up to scratch and monitor: any better ideas? Paradoxically they become quite lively after changes.

[Diana]

Bigger tank.

200 liters is about half the size that Clowns ought to be kept in for just this reason:
While generally social, they do have their spats, and are well armed to attack each other in case the argument gets heated.
Having even more floor space will allow the lower ranking fish to get away farther from the aggressive one, so reduce the stress.

[codger]

OK, thanks but that fails the domestic acceptability constraint.

I did understate slightly, tank is about 235 litres but crucially is deep with reduced substrate area. I will try and create ground-level hiding places rather than depend on higher level escapes. I'm a it surprised that this behaviour is escalating but I guess even at 10 the youngsters are still maturing.

[Bas Pels]

As a clown loach can reach 35 cm - and will reach over 20 - I would consider even a 400 liter tank far too tiny.

On planet catfish, a rule of thumb is used of 4 L * 2 L * 2L tanks - that is L being the maximum length of the fish. Tat would imply for clown loaches a 140 * 70 * 70 cm tank, or 700 liters

HOWEVER catfish are much more quiet then loaches, and therefore I would suggest a bit more length, and the height of the tank can be a bit less

I got a 260 * 80 * 60 cm tank. That is 7.5 L * 2.3 L * 1.7 L. To me, this is roughly what they need. Minimum need, that is

[codger]

Well, I've had my oldest loach since 1992 and opinion has evolved considerably since then - the front page of this site reflects that.

I'm surmising but I expect my original three were wild caught but they were essentially sold by the hobby as community fish. Certainly they were considered fine for a custom cube, side no larger than 40cm (it's in the loft now). When I got my second trio in 1999 (another single remains) it was noticeable that they outgrew the original three (one of which was to suffer wasting disease the same year). The third generation arrived into the existing tank in 2004 and have stayed relatively small though they are deeper bodied than the others. Seven (2+1+4) lived together pretty well since then (my old friend from 1992 with the distinctive markings and odd habits died late last year).

So I don't for a minute doubt the wisdom and desirability of larger tanks for these fish but there are an awful lot of people out there who have been keeping them for a long time under the 'old rules'.

[redshark1]

260 x 80 x 60 is far too small.

Compared to a Borneo River, that is!

I have to stick up for the newcomer here because he does seem to have a good grasp of things to be honest.

He has been unlucky in the interactions of his fish and I do not think it is to do with the tank size but is to do with the individual characters of his fish. In my long experience on Clown Loach forums I can categorically state that Clowns fighting is not correlated with tank size and there are many people with what we would now consider to be smaller tanks who have peaceful Loaches.

I was advised to keep my own shoal of six in a 3 foot aquarium but I already had my sights set on a 6 foot aquarium which I thought at the time was vast (the largest tanks purchased in my region were usually 3-4 foot). That's until I was re-educated fifteen years later by Emma Turner that this is also too small!

And I agree, she did a great service to Clown Loaches and their owners all over the world by suggesting that an aquarium should support the full potential piscine development. That must be the ideal. But I remember feeling hurt as I had up to then thought I'd done rather well.

As a newcomer I wouldn't want codger to feel hurt and take a negative view of our forum and I think that anyone clearly wanting to do the best for their fish deserves our support even if they have constraints. His fish will likely be "stunted" and grow rather smaller than their potential but I personally believe they will otherwise be healthy if he maintains good conditions otherwise.

It may simply be necessary to remove problem fish if they are hurting others, much as we do with members of our own communities.

[Loachloach]

I am far from an expert but for the time I've kept mine I've seen them bicker just once at the very start. Maybe because some of yours are outgrowing "older" ones and they tend to re-establish the order amongst themselves every so often.

Mine are growing at different rates but so far the biggest has stayed the biggest. I got a new one a bit more than a year ago, bigger than all of the rest I had and I still didn't see any bickering. But this one found his own cave in a tube that no other ever liked, so he's all alone when "sleeping"/resting. And I think that's because he's too big to get in where the others are, which is an empty tee trunk, so he/she was accepted readily in the group without fights.
Maybe see if you can squeeze more caves in there, it may help.

This is a very old video below when mine fought the first and the last time I saw them. And I am sure they fought about the cave you can see in the video. By the way my common pleco used to stay in this cave when smaller at the time and he was very upset when I got the loaches, was very cross and was flying around the tank like a lunatic for a couple of weeks as they evicted him from there too. But I made him a cave as well and he settled there eventually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGhiN2 ... wiLlaaSpoA