PHOTOS

[Loachloach]

Well, sometimes one can do everything they can and the battle could still be lost.

I wouldn't worry about swings. As long as the TDS is in close range with the tap water, which yours is, water changes won't cause a swing, but on the contrary, stabilise the tank. The problem with crushed coral is that it doesn't raise the KH much at all. Soft water in nature can have other types of natural buffers such as humic and fulvic compounds. In hard water they actually reduce the KH we measure for, in soft water they act as buffers. This can be achieved via leaf litter and the likes.

If it is disease related, the last thing I'd recommend trying is flubendazole. Its a broad spectrum deworming medication. It is sold in the UK as Kusuri Wormer Plus and is normally delivered internationally. Last year I cured one very sickly loach I had bought. I was able to keep him alive for 2-3 months via lots of water changes but he wasn't growing, was eating but getting skinnier, and stayed white as a sheet. In the end I dosed flubendazole and he started recovering within days. His buddy I bought at the same time with him visible on the first picture, was never affected.

Here are a couple of pictures a year apart.

February 2017-the very pale loach..


January 2018 -loach on the left of the picture.

[FranM]

Great pictures. I guess I can try the Flubendazole worse to worse. Did you use as a medicated food or treat the water? It’s also killing me that the other fish are getting the medicated food when they don’t have anything wrong with them.

Thank you again for taking the time to help.

[Loachloach]

Treat the water. It will ensure correct dosage. It can kill snails though, if you have any but in a clown loach tank I don't normally have any surviving snails The dosage is normally one time, wait 4 days, then dose a second time just in case. It is very safe for any fish/fry, will not affect biological filtration, etc...

Don't worry about the other fish, its no harm deworming everyone as these things are contagious although not every fish will succumb to it.

[Loachloach]

To be honest Fran, looking again at the pictures of the loach, the blotches, etc...it does look like water quality related, not in terms of non-maintained tank but the water could be way too soft and unstable....I would still dose the flubendazole to rule out worms/parasites as I remember your loach looked parasite ridden years ago when you first posted. But long term you may want to think how to get a bit of buffering in there...Perhaps you can start with what Nancy suggested, some baking soda.

[FranM]

Thanks, LoachLoach.

There is not a type of rock or stone I can put in that will maintain a constant raised kh level? I know, the crushed coral did little. Thanks again.

[Loachloach]

The only way I know, or have read about is using either rocks that contain calcium carbonate or baking soda. The first will also raise the GH as it contains calcium, the latter will only affect the KH as it contains carbonates in the form of sodium bi-carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is harder to dissolve in water and that will largely depend on one's water, how fast and how much it will raise the GH and KH, but generally said, although it will raise GH, its a poor buffer as you have found out. When a tank produces high amount of carbonic acids, either due to higher bioload or high dissolved organics, crushed coral may not be fast enough to neutralise those.

Sodium bi-carbonate will have pretty much instant effect on the KH, therefore care should be taken with the dosage to achieve the desired level but it is the only direct way to be in control

So when you do water changes with water void on either GH and KH, and use crushed coral in the filter, the effect of raising the KH and thus the pH back up may not be immediate, if any.

With baking soda, if the water is prepared prior to addition, you may have some control and it will stabilise things faster. However, one needs to first to do quite a bit of testing to see what and how much works in their tank, also prepare the water to be added in advance. Ideally, you'd want a dKH of around 4, and this should keep the pH stable between water changes, and have enough buffer for the acids produced in the tank and biological processes such as nitrification.

As far as using rocks that contain calcium carbonate, the best is probably Oolitic sand, which is also known as Aragonite.. It dissolves faster than crushed coral but has similar effect in general, may not be rapid enough depending on stock levels/organic levels.

[FranM]

Thank you.

Not sure what you mean as far as preparing water in advance. What I could do is measure a couple gallons of tap and add some baking soda in perhaps quarter teaspoons increments, wait an hour between testing and see what that does to the kh level. I do approx 20 gallons water changes each week (figuring a 55 gallon really has about 40-45 gallons of water and half is taken out). So multiply the number of quarter teaspoons times 10 and that should give me an approximate full tank amount?

I would also like to try argonite in the bucket as a separate test and see how that fares. Of course the tank water will be different because the organics will build. But I can’t even get the kh to 2 from either tap or tank. So something would be nice.

[FranM]

I’M READY TO SHOOT MYSELF.

No I won’t do that. Let me tell you what has happened now! I bought Tetra Easy Balance which is supppsed to stabilize PH and raise KH. WELL, I have managed to lower PH even more from 6.8-7.0 to 6.6. This is working in reverse. KH is not even touched. Just as bad as it was. What the hellllllll????!

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So I just got off the phone with a very blah rep from Tetra who explained that Easy Balance only maintains—doesn’t fix. Maybe I was hoping for too much. So I added one teaspoon only of baking soda and will check the tank in an hour. I don’t expect it to do much of anything but I’m fearful of a sudden change.

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So I tested again about 45 minutes after tsp of baking soda and these poor bastid fish. I hope they survive. Now the PH has jumped to 7.4-7.6!! KH is at a full 1.0 now. I will take out the crushed coral. I don’t want to feed them yet figuring it’s more energy to eat right now. Let them get accustomed to water that has changed twice in the last couple hours.

[Loachloach]

Don't worry about the Ph change. When the water is soft small changes in water chemistry causes a big jump in Ph. In essence your TDS has not changed much at all. The fish will be fine. Just work out how much soda in order to raise the kh by 4. Monitor what happens everyday till the next water change. Keep an eye on the fish. They should behave better, not worse.

[NancyD]

I agree, don't worry. The problem with the baking soda is the effect may not last all that long. I know you have only emmersed pothos but plants can "use up" KH as I found out when I moved to a soft water area with more plants. (Diana was very helpful on another board.)

You'll just have to keep testing & experimenting to see what amount & how often you need to add baking soda. Hopefully you can get to a point where you can just add it at water changes before you pH drops too much.

I was surprised how low my TDS was last week (27!) so I added a pinch of baking soda until I test KH & GH & figure out what, if anything, I may need to do for my tanks. My KH & GH were 3 & 4 Gdh last time I checked, low but ok.

[Loachloach]

Agree with Nancy. I was writing on my phone earlier so didn't explain more.
The KH "effect" doesn't last long because KH is used up by many processes in the tank, plants, nitrification, etc....Hence it needs to be replenished via water changes, but when one's water doesn't have it......its a different story.

I suggested a value of about 4 dKH because I've never ever seen mine drop that much in a tank, but in extreme circumstance, such as a well fed fry tank, it can, and it will, and I've done it. So it is largely dependent on the level of stocking/feeding, etc...See how much your tank needs for a week or two weeks worth and dose the Kh up to that at each water changes. You don't need to re-dose to replenish between water change as long as some KH reading remains, minimum 1 of course. The pH should only drop if all the KH is used up. The relationship between pH and KH is not linear. I dropped my KH from 7 to 2 in one tank a few years back(no water changes). My pH did not move one bit. Another time I crashed a fry tank, KH unreadable, pH was plummeting, fish were gasping at the surface...

[FranM]

A lot to take in. My PH has never really crashed. It pretty much has been as low as 6.4 and as high (except for today) as 6.8. The tap comes out super high. Off the charts for the mid range test kit. That’s why I kept the crushed coral so when so donwater changes the difference isn’t as extreme.

So do you think the Tetra Easy Balance will at the very least keep the water stable until the next water change? Tomorrow morning I will check PH and KH again and if the readings are still the same as today, I will add more baking soda.

Thank you Nancy and Loach

[NancyD]

I agree again My pH isn't all that low & not just because water companies raise it temporarily to protect the pipes. Even after off-gassing tap for 24 hours it was AFAIR ~7.6. Another thing I should check more often I guess But it's not something I worry about as long as it's fairly stable. It was different (lower) when I lived in the NE with acid rain, I don't know if that's something you have to deal with... sounds like maybe you do.

I would leave the crushed coral in your filter, it helps raise GH & a bit with KH. Try to change 1 thing at a time, gradually. What is your tap GH & KH? I'm not a regular tester of anything If fish &/or plants grow well for me, my water, my water changes, etc., great! ; if not...well, there are limits to my devotion anymore But I did keep clowns in both hard & soft water; & raised 1 inch discus fry to adults in NE soft water. We, back in our early fish keeping days, did obsess over some parameters...that we could easily & cheaply test for 35 years ago. We bred fish & raised fry (as long as they weren't too, too needy).

I also agree with flubendazole dosing, but I would dose again after 2 weeks to kill any eggs that hatched in the meantime. I don't think it kills all forms of parasites, many treatments don't kill eggs. You want to kill them while they're young before they can reproduce.

Fran, deep breath, relax...your clown is getting better & you're learning about your water issues & how to fix them. I "think" you'll see seasonal water differences as I have too...when I test. You're a good fish keeper trying your best, that's all you can do.

[Loachloach]

One thing to mention, in soft water like that, unless you have a pH monitor attached to the tank, one won't know if the pH crashed down or not because it probably fluctuates up and down all the time as the day/week goes by. One time dip without noticing is enough to stress fish for a good while.

Any reading for KH will keep the water stable until the next water change. That's why you need to play the chemist for a while, to see how much the tank is actually using between water changes.

And again to agree with Nancy , leave the crushed coral for some calcium in the water, it is beneficial to the critters. Additionally, you may think of adding a pinch of epsom salts as well(mangnesium sulfate). Epsom salts dissolves in water easily so small amounts go a long way. It will raise the TDS almost immediately so you can use your TDS pen to allow just a small rise at a time.

[FranM]

Well the Tetra Easy Balance is supppsed to supply those lost minerals yet I will replace the crushed coral just the same.

Tank and tap GH and KH, believe it or not, are the same readings.

Thank you for the support Nancy and Loach. I really do appreciate it.