But i'm actually going to petco today(looking for some more yoyos)so while i'm there i can find some incorrect labels...I'm also going to spread this idea to another website I go to.They would probably make a difference.
i need help--Really lots of it!
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
I'd write a letter to petsmart to start if it weren't for the fact that i've never been there But i'm actually going to petco today(looking for some more yoyos)so while i'm there i can find some incorrect labels...
I'm also going to spread this idea to another website I go to.They would probably make a difference.
But i'm actually going to petco today(looking for some more yoyos)so while i'm there i can find some incorrect labels...I'm also going to spread this idea to another website I go to.They would probably make a difference.
My loaches:
5 kubotai
5 almorhae
5 kuhli
5 zebra
1 aborichthys
5 kubotai
5 almorhae
5 kuhli
5 zebra
1 aborichthys
thanks for the help!. let them know that www.noclownsinacube.net will be up late this week.
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adampetherick
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:53 am
- Location: Fleet, Hampshire, England
- Contact:
And it wasn't a couple of fish.There was at least 20 1.5 inch loaches 
botiaboy,
Tose kinds of situations upset me as well.
i guess that is one of the reasons we picked PetSmart. They do try to keep tanks reasonably clean. They have a proven record of promoting and assisting in humane and responsible pet keeping practices.
No retailer is going to be perfect. The fish may have come to PetCo with a parasitic presence. And, given the opportunistic nature of the parasite the fish succumbed as a result of the stress encountered during shipping. Not all problems are the fault of the retailer. A lot of fish give it up for the home team so that hobbyists have the opportunity to purchase them. Or, the ich may have been present in other tanks and given the nature of a banked filtration system the parasite spread and attacked the highly susceptible loach population.
I will offer up that I have had PetCo refuse to sell me fish out of diseased tanks. Sometimes it is a problem with a specific store or employee.
If, however the retailer knowingly made a concious decision to sell diseased livestock to consumers that is a totally different issue. One that should be addressed.
With PetSmart we are trying to keep a lot of these issues out of play. It just adds to the degree of difficulty to creating change. There are so many husbandry issues that are open to other influences. We are trying to keep the attention focused directly on something the retailer controls and is repsonsible for. Accurate, species specific information.
sully
Tose kinds of situations upset me as well.
i guess that is one of the reasons we picked PetSmart. They do try to keep tanks reasonably clean. They have a proven record of promoting and assisting in humane and responsible pet keeping practices.
No retailer is going to be perfect. The fish may have come to PetCo with a parasitic presence. And, given the opportunistic nature of the parasite the fish succumbed as a result of the stress encountered during shipping. Not all problems are the fault of the retailer. A lot of fish give it up for the home team so that hobbyists have the opportunity to purchase them. Or, the ich may have been present in other tanks and given the nature of a banked filtration system the parasite spread and attacked the highly susceptible loach population.
I will offer up that I have had PetCo refuse to sell me fish out of diseased tanks. Sometimes it is a problem with a specific store or employee.
If, however the retailer knowingly made a concious decision to sell diseased livestock to consumers that is a totally different issue. One that should be addressed.
With PetSmart we are trying to keep a lot of these issues out of play. It just adds to the degree of difficulty to creating change. There are so many husbandry issues that are open to other influences. We are trying to keep the attention focused directly on something the retailer controls and is repsonsible for. Accurate, species specific information.
sully
Some things don't go as planned. the site was finally made accessible wtih a bit of help from tech support at the hosting service. some screwy glitch. the rough draft of a site is now posted where some others can get to it--or load changes that they have already made. odd thing about a group of volunteers, they have real lifes that get in the way. almost there. not quite--but close
here is something that changed in the thinking after reading what emma said in another thread.
(DID IT FOR YOU SULLY - Martin)
Decided not to take too much artistic license with the shape of a clown. Do you recognize the origin of the image? emma helped conince me that there is such a thing as "too cute". Thanks.
if I could have figured out how to actually post the image here i would have--instead, the link.
here is something that changed in the thinking after reading what emma said in another thread.
(DID IT FOR YOU SULLY - Martin)Decided not to take too much artistic license with the shape of a clown. Do you recognize the origin of the image? emma helped conince me that there is such a thing as "too cute". Thanks.
if I could have figured out how to actually post the image here i would have--instead, the link.
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Martin Thoene
- Posts: 11186
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:38 am
- Location: Toronto.....Actually, I've been on LOL since September 1998
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
PetSmart has been the topic of discussion.
The basic discussion is one that posits that “Accurate Information” should be provided, species by species, on Point-Of-Purchase Signs. Inaccurate information leads to poor husbandry of fish. Misinformation creates improper stocking of tanks. Stunting, disease, death, and shortened life spans are all a direct result of misleading and false consumer advertising.
A couple of letters have been posted detailing the information on just a few of the species. The few examples are indicative of the problems on the vast majority of the in-store signs.
People have wondered if we have yet to receive a response. The answer has been a consistent “not yet”. And, when the reply comes it is expected to a non-responsive deflection of the issue. Basically a “we will look into it” answer.
A reply did arrive. It lived up to the expectation. It was the perfunctory show of concern with the simple statement “…your concerns…have been brought to the attention of our Management Team. They periodically review our signage…and will make changes as appropriate on the next review”.
A Product Care Specialist sent the response. The letters were addressed to several senior level managers. PetSmart finds it more convenient to let low-level employees speak in answer to correspondence to corporate officers. It makes one wonder just what will be “changes as appropriate”.
We need your help. It is the request, once again, to send letters to PetSmart calling for an immediate review and revision of signage. Fishkeepers cannot permit PetSmart to decide when to correct a problem. We deserve honest advertising and technical information. We do not deserve to be routinely misled until they find it convenient to change their business practice. Unknowing hobbyists do not deserve to be deceived until PetSmart finds it fits their budget to make a change.
Responsible fish care starts at the store. Right now it starts with misinformation that only leads to irresponsible and inadequate care. You can make a difference. You can help create a change. Send letters to PetSmart voicing your displeasure.
www.noclownsinacube.net is now on-line (at least partially). We finalized a few of the pages and created a temporary welcome page in order to more fully discuss the reasoning behind the campaign, to share the full text of the response from PetSmart (not a whole lot there), display letters that have been sent, and provide a couple of sample formats if you do not have time to draft your own.
If you don’t make it to the site we ask you to include a couple of things in every letter. First a topic line that reads RE: POP Signage – Accuracy in Information. And, if possible copy our avatar and place it in the upper right corner of the letter. Those two simple steps will help PetSmart understand that fishkeepers are beginning to speak with a unified voice demanding a change and we won’t be easily deflected with the perfunctory PR Reply.
Follow the only active links at www.noclownsinacube.net. Names of PetSmart Senior Management, as well as address info can be found there. As the next couple of week’s progress the site will change—but we will strive to make it a quick, easy, and enlightening resource.
Thanks,
Sully
The basic discussion is one that posits that “Accurate Information” should be provided, species by species, on Point-Of-Purchase Signs. Inaccurate information leads to poor husbandry of fish. Misinformation creates improper stocking of tanks. Stunting, disease, death, and shortened life spans are all a direct result of misleading and false consumer advertising.
A couple of letters have been posted detailing the information on just a few of the species. The few examples are indicative of the problems on the vast majority of the in-store signs.
People have wondered if we have yet to receive a response. The answer has been a consistent “not yet”. And, when the reply comes it is expected to a non-responsive deflection of the issue. Basically a “we will look into it” answer.
A reply did arrive. It lived up to the expectation. It was the perfunctory show of concern with the simple statement “…your concerns…have been brought to the attention of our Management Team. They periodically review our signage…and will make changes as appropriate on the next review”.
A Product Care Specialist sent the response. The letters were addressed to several senior level managers. PetSmart finds it more convenient to let low-level employees speak in answer to correspondence to corporate officers. It makes one wonder just what will be “changes as appropriate”.
We need your help. It is the request, once again, to send letters to PetSmart calling for an immediate review and revision of signage. Fishkeepers cannot permit PetSmart to decide when to correct a problem. We deserve honest advertising and technical information. We do not deserve to be routinely misled until they find it convenient to change their business practice. Unknowing hobbyists do not deserve to be deceived until PetSmart finds it fits their budget to make a change.
Responsible fish care starts at the store. Right now it starts with misinformation that only leads to irresponsible and inadequate care. You can make a difference. You can help create a change. Send letters to PetSmart voicing your displeasure.
www.noclownsinacube.net is now on-line (at least partially). We finalized a few of the pages and created a temporary welcome page in order to more fully discuss the reasoning behind the campaign, to share the full text of the response from PetSmart (not a whole lot there), display letters that have been sent, and provide a couple of sample formats if you do not have time to draft your own.
If you don’t make it to the site we ask you to include a couple of things in every letter. First a topic line that reads RE: POP Signage – Accuracy in Information. And, if possible copy our avatar and place it in the upper right corner of the letter. Those two simple steps will help PetSmart understand that fishkeepers are beginning to speak with a unified voice demanding a change and we won’t be easily deflected with the perfunctory PR Reply.
Follow the only active links at www.noclownsinacube.net. Names of PetSmart Senior Management, as well as address info can be found there. As the next couple of week’s progress the site will change—but we will strive to make it a quick, easy, and enlightening resource.
Thanks,
Sully
An interesting reaction has been voiced on other boards, in e.mails, and in chats.
Some people are not sure if they agree with the letter writing to PetSmart. Not because they disagree with accurate information concept. Rather as a matter of focus.
The people are asking why not the entire population of mass merchandisers, regional chains, and the mom and pops? Why limit it to POP Signage? Why not address Painted Fish, Hybrids, pH up and down products, the over use of meds created by easy availability, and the other "useless" products sold to new and less well informed hobbyists?
A couple of people, serious minded fishkeepers, have asked why not push for a much bigger goal, the elimination of mass merchandisers as resellers of fish?
The goal of the "Accuracy In Information" push, for me, goes well beyond POP Signage. My goal is that all retailers are required to provide accurate information about the fish and all the products they sell. But, to achieve success and attainment of goals you have to figure out the steps required to realize them.
A lot of us hear the rhetoric spouted by the sports rookies that are taken with early picks on "draft day" in professional sports. We hear one kid tell how he is not only going to take his team to the championship game, but he is going to score the winning points--usually in the last seconds of the game. Then we here other rookies say how grateful they are just to be drafted. Then express their commitment to just making the team and becoming a good team mate.
Almost overnight it seems the championship game is being played. Nowhere to be found is the guy with all the hype. Instead it is the guy that was drafted and just committed himself to the small first step scoring the winning points as the clock expires.
Both of the guys picked early in the draft had the same goal. Both had a big dream. One understood how to achieve it. Small steps at a time.
There could be a push to send letters to every retailer. With a lot of messages about how they sell to the public. That is what has been happening for years. Hobbyist's get ticked off, concerned, or upset. They pen a letter, vent theri frustration, and that is the last of it.
A lot of people have the goal.
A few have taken a step to realize that goal.
Very few will realize success.
The goal is "Accuracy In Information" at all retail locations. Letters to a single retailer is a tool to help achieve visibility hobby wide. It is a tool to gain the attention of the largest, most responsible, Pet retailer in the trade. Without someone paying attention, and then thinking about the issue--nothing will happen. We will have the same situation. This is not an attack on a retailer. This is an effort to help them see that there is a fundamental error in the materials they utilize. An error most likely shared across an industry.
If we can help the leader see the mistake--or share with us why it is not a mistake--then real change occurs. Once change is accomplished with a single retailer the others become easier to educate. Other retailers will be more open to making what fishkeepers see as required change. The push for sending letters to PetSmart is not an attack. It is a campaign to help an industry leader realize the concerns of its' customer base. And to realize the concerns of fishkeepers as an entire community.
Hopefully you will join a growing community of fishkeepers taking the first, small, step to the realization of of common goals.
Don't think that the letters to PetSmart are the last letters you will be asked to send. Think of them as the first of many as each of us in the hobby helps institute responsible retail trade practices.
Send a letter. Please.
Some people are not sure if they agree with the letter writing to PetSmart. Not because they disagree with accurate information concept. Rather as a matter of focus.
The people are asking why not the entire population of mass merchandisers, regional chains, and the mom and pops? Why limit it to POP Signage? Why not address Painted Fish, Hybrids, pH up and down products, the over use of meds created by easy availability, and the other "useless" products sold to new and less well informed hobbyists?
A couple of people, serious minded fishkeepers, have asked why not push for a much bigger goal, the elimination of mass merchandisers as resellers of fish?
The goal of the "Accuracy In Information" push, for me, goes well beyond POP Signage. My goal is that all retailers are required to provide accurate information about the fish and all the products they sell. But, to achieve success and attainment of goals you have to figure out the steps required to realize them.
A lot of us hear the rhetoric spouted by the sports rookies that are taken with early picks on "draft day" in professional sports. We hear one kid tell how he is not only going to take his team to the championship game, but he is going to score the winning points--usually in the last seconds of the game. Then we here other rookies say how grateful they are just to be drafted. Then express their commitment to just making the team and becoming a good team mate.
Almost overnight it seems the championship game is being played. Nowhere to be found is the guy with all the hype. Instead it is the guy that was drafted and just committed himself to the small first step scoring the winning points as the clock expires.
Both of the guys picked early in the draft had the same goal. Both had a big dream. One understood how to achieve it. Small steps at a time.
There could be a push to send letters to every retailer. With a lot of messages about how they sell to the public. That is what has been happening for years. Hobbyist's get ticked off, concerned, or upset. They pen a letter, vent theri frustration, and that is the last of it.
A lot of people have the goal.
A few have taken a step to realize that goal.
Very few will realize success.
The goal is "Accuracy In Information" at all retail locations. Letters to a single retailer is a tool to help achieve visibility hobby wide. It is a tool to gain the attention of the largest, most responsible, Pet retailer in the trade. Without someone paying attention, and then thinking about the issue--nothing will happen. We will have the same situation. This is not an attack on a retailer. This is an effort to help them see that there is a fundamental error in the materials they utilize. An error most likely shared across an industry.
If we can help the leader see the mistake--or share with us why it is not a mistake--then real change occurs. Once change is accomplished with a single retailer the others become easier to educate. Other retailers will be more open to making what fishkeepers see as required change. The push for sending letters to PetSmart is not an attack. It is a campaign to help an industry leader realize the concerns of its' customer base. And to realize the concerns of fishkeepers as an entire community.
Hopefully you will join a growing community of fishkeepers taking the first, small, step to the realization of of common goals.
Don't think that the letters to PetSmart are the last letters you will be asked to send. Think of them as the first of many as each of us in the hobby helps institute responsible retail trade practices.
Send a letter. Please.
We are close to having a discussion board up and running at www.noclownsinacube.net . It will be an issue related board--not a fish help board.
One of the topic areas ithat is envisioned is a "Round Table" open to the retailers and a group of fishkeepers that would be considered authoritative in the field. The thought is that this area would develop even more slowly than the general disucssion area.
You guys know the "loach" area best. If you have any suggestions for an individual or two that would be a good choice to be a member of the round table area send me a pm or e.mail. please.
In the meantime--send those letters.
One of the topic areas ithat is envisioned is a "Round Table" open to the retailers and a group of fishkeepers that would be considered authoritative in the field. The thought is that this area would develop even more slowly than the general disucssion area.
You guys know the "loach" area best. If you have any suggestions for an individual or two that would be a good choice to be a member of the round table area send me a pm or e.mail. please.
In the meantime--send those letters.
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