looking for some advice?

[eelise]

I am new here and first let me say, it is just wonderful to find a place where loaches are loved, I have always loved them, and I thought most poeple didn't even know what there were?

Anyway, I used to have a 20 ga tank with some tropical and a few weather loaches and a kuhli loach. I thought what I wa doing was fine, everyone seemed happy. I didn't know much about fish then, this was like 10 years ago.

Now, I have just started a tank for my toddler (20 ga), and as I look around, everyone is telling me that it is not fair to a weather loach to put them in water with fish that need the water temp to be more that 75 degrees. What success or advise do you all have with have a tank with weather loaches and tropical fis or are there other non loach fish that you feel fit really well with weather loaches?

and, the fun in all this is I live in a state (MA) that bans weather loaches, I have to go to rhode Island just to buy them, but they are favorite fish, so I am wondering what to do. I suppose if I really want to, but I am in inclined, I could have two tanks, but I am not so motivated for that.

I welcome any thoughts:)

[angelfish83]

Hey welcome

-All loaches need to be in groups. Five is the general consensus as a good minimum

-Weather loaches don't do very well in warm water. So, if anything, do a cool water tank, or if you can't maintain the low temperature evenly all year, don't get weather loaches and do a warm water tank. You can't it have both ways unfortunately. Also, as you said, you can get 2 tanks, make one cool and one warm. A lot of people have trouple keeping coolwater tanks even temperature since room temperature jumps around with windows, drafts, doors, etc etc...

I don't know that a 20G is really a very good size for anything but Kuhlis. For weathers its a little cramped.. but just barely workable.

Can you upgrade to atleast a 3 foot long tank?

Otherwise, you're pretty well stuck with the Kuhlis if you go warm and weathers if you go cool. You could perhaps work polkadots or something but its slightly inhumane...

Tankmate selection is also slightly limited by your tank size. In that small tank you could keep some coldwater cyprinids, like a bunch of whitecloud minnows, your five weather loaches, and a couple of amano shrimp...

If you went warmwater you'd have more options in tetras and such... and maybe 8 Kuhlis. Still, 20 Gallons is so tiny.

If you went with a 3 or 4 foot tank, you could get like 9 weather loaches, a whole bunch of Amano Shrimp, and some nice Denison Barbs for the top. They're beautiful and prefer cooler water...

[Martin Thoene]

Hi eelise, and welcome to THE place on the Internet where people are fanatical about Loaches....even more than loving them

People are giving you good information. Weather Loaches are adaptable, but they're really a temperate fish and need lower temperatures than the regular "tropical" setup. They can also get quite big. Here's our just updated species profile:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=2847

If MA bans the sale of the species isn't it also illegal to keep them?

I always thought the good old days of Moonshine-runners were rather romantic. Maybe there should be cross-state runs with prohibited Loaches

Martin.

[eelise]

thanks for your reply and all this information. I don't think I am prepared to get a bigger tank at this time. IM my old tank, 20 ga, I had two weather loaches and a kuhli, does what your saying mean they were not very happy? Maybe I should just stick with kuhli loaches for now. But, you certainly have given me some options. Do you think I really need 5 for them to be happy?

Well, lots to consider, but I miss having weather loaches:(

[eelise]

As for these being banned in MA, I just drive 45 minutes to RI or NH, everyone does it and I would never let one loose in a stream, I love them too much. The fear is that they change the ecosystem here bc they are so adaptable, but, I hardly think they should be banned.

[angelfish83]

thanks for your reply and all this information. I don't think I am prepared to get a bigger tank at this time. IM my old tank, 20 ga, I had two weather loaches and a kuhli, does what your saying mean they were not very happy? Maybe I should just stick with kuhli loaches for now. But, you certainly have given me some options. Do you think I really need 5 for them to be happy?

Well, lots to consider, but I miss having weather loaches:(

Yup we're saying they weren't very happy. If you get Kuhlis you need more than five ideally. Those are even more group-centric. I would suggest 8 for a 20 gallon, and lots of hiding spots, and fine sand if possible, not gravel. For more info on what sand to use how to wash etc ask seperately I can't type that right now my wrist is sore

Kuhlis like it warmer, so make sure you've got a heater.

Also, you'll want lots of current for loaches. Either use a rediculously overpowered HOB filter, or use a properly matched one and get a powerhead for the bottom. An Airpump is also recommended- and lots of surface movement, either by additional powerhead or good positioning of airpump and HOB filter etc.

So, warm water, 8ish Kuhli loaches, strong current, lots of surface movement, sand, and some other fish that can deal with high current, so gouramis in general are pretty much out. There are some nice barbs that'll work in that size though.

[mikev]

Get two types of Kuhlis. If you don't have any other loaches, 10 will work out in a 20g tank (hopefully, it is a 20L).

Five striped, five blacks, you get two very different personalities, and the fish will be happy.

Strong current is not needed for Kuhlis. *Some* current would be nice.

There are some other loaches that will do fine in a 20g. Zippers, for example. I'm pretty sure you can mix them with kuhlis too (temp around 77F, some current).
See my zippers

[eelise]

Thanks everyone, this is graat information. I should add that right now, in my 20 ga (high), I hvae three albino tetras and three very tiny pigmy cory catf ish, that is what I wanted to start with for my daughter. she is only 2.5 yrs, and she wanted white fish, so, this is what she picked. I just thought to start it would be good to have some bottom feeders until I decide what I really want to do. But you all have given me some great ideas. I am not sure I want to make my daughters tank an only loach tank. I am not sure that she would want that.

If I did have a cold water tank, which I am somewhat considering for weather loaches, would I do it in a 30 ga tank ? I want to think small. I am not sure where I would even put another fish tank. I would have to think about that. But, in terms of temp, I think it would be fine, I have central air, and hate heat and summer, me and the weather loaches love the same temp. Anything over 70 of 75 degrees, is too warm for me, it'a perfect fit! We'll see what I decide to do. If I could find a space and have a 30 ga tank of just weather loaches, I would consider that if you all think it would be fair to them. ? I would only di it if I thought they would be happy. But, I am not interested in having very large tanks, feels like too much for me.

But, this is a great place, I had no idea that others loves loaches like I do...what a nice discovery:)

[eelise]

HOw many zipper loaches like to be together ? Maybe I could add zipper loaches, to my existing tank? They look very much like a favorite loach I once had that I have not seen a pciture of yet to identify it. What do you all think? And, are they hard to find?

[sophie]

re. tank size for weathers: mine are in a four foot tank and I would not keep them in anything significantly smaller. They use the whole of the footprint, and they don;t seem to have particular territories - they're not like the yoyos and the kuhlis that I also have, who have favourite hiding/resting places. Volume is not so important for the dojos; it's floor space. They use a lot of it.

[Desi]

I agree with that sophie, mine are all over resting in numerous different spots but when they are not resting look out. 4ft even seems a little short at times as they round the tank many, many times. Mine seem to like to swim long distances in straight lines. It also appears they run into the end of the tank at times cause it approaches too quick, probably not what is going on but it looks like that. Length does seem to be more of an issue than height or even width at times. They are often going back and forth across the front.

Desi

[JonGuerriero]

Weather loaches are really illegal in MA? I could swear I've seen them in the PJ's Pets behind the Square One Mall in Route 1.

[eelise]

oh yes, weather loaches are illegal, but, they are oh so much fun and lots of people go to NH and RI to get them.

[mikev]

HOw many zipper loaches like to be together ? Maybe I could add zipper loaches, to my existing tank? They look very much like a favorite loach I once had that I have not seen a pciture of yet to identify it. What do you all think?

I currently have 6 and will increase. It appears that they are more social than most other loaches, so since I can afford a little space, why not make them happy?

5 IMO is the absolute minimum if you can find them.

I've noticed that they socialize with other loaches too, but how general this is is not clear. Here, they were very friendly with the Sewellia's in the quarantine, and now try to school with the Yoyo's (looks good *so far*). But all three species have similar tail markings, and I don't know how they would react to a loach without such markings (worse case scenario: ignore).

If you decide on Zippers, probably black kuhlis will make better companions than striped, they are considerably more active. A tank with 5 zippers + 3-5 black kuhlis should be quite nice.

And, are they hard to find?

They should not be really rare but I never saw them in stores. Mine came from Frank

hth

[eelise]

At the moment, I have a 20 ga (high) with three albino tetras and 3 very tiny pigmy cory catfish, what options do I have for loaches? I like the zipper loaches and kuhli, could I do a small number of one of these these in this tank ? What about a banded loaches? Or, woud that just be too crowded for loaches? I do have a bit of a current with my hood/filter combo, so I think I would be ok with that? ANy thoughts and I will stop asking so many questions....thanks for the advice:)