"The Struggle"...a clowns hope for life after ich.

[mikev]

Switching meds is of course another option.

Ick Guard worked for me several times....(no losses of fish)...but I'm slightly hesitant now since one active ingredient is "Victoria Green" and I'm not entirely sure what this is exactly. If it happens to be the same "Malachite Green", it would not do anything for you. Might be worth researching this asap, and also researching other formulas.

[cybermeez]

Yeah, havent had carbon in for some time.... but i have tried three ich remedies so far! hesitant to try a new one... i think i wil do a 50% water change and treat full dose after, see how that goes... very strange but 9 days indeed and still Ich.

I was told to cut back to once a week on the water changes... new recommendation?

This is a very tiring excercise in what seems like futility.

My water comes out of the tap at 8.0 and HARD, should i treat it to 7.2 as well or let the pH be for now?

I don't know about changing the pH of the water. My instinct would be to leave it alone and not cause any further stress to the fish. Altering the pH could push an already sick fish over the edge.

It's up to you, but over the years I've tried so may ich remidies that I've lost count. When I got to ParaGuard, I knew my search for the best ant-parasite med (IMO) was over. In my experience it is the most effective freshwater ich remedy out there. ParaGuard also has the added benefit of treating external bacterial and viral infections that often show up as seconday infections in fish with ich.

You can find out more about ParaGuard here:
http://www.seachem.com/products/product ... Guard.html

Good Luck!

[Baz Bluck]

I have been reading about your problems with interest as I am in the same boat. Being new to this forum I asked for help several weeks ago regarding ich and received great advice which worked wonders, but it is back with a vengeance and is not responding to the advice and treatment previously given. To be honest the clowns have been really hard work and I am reaching the end of my tether with them. I am continuing the treatment but if I lose them all I have to be honest I think I will give up on clowns. Best of luck to you.

[Xirxes]

I know exactly how you are feeling.

I have now read >40 clown loach ich treatment threads, and have come to the conclusion that if you want safe route, it will take almost 3 weeks, if you want quick route, maybe a week, you might kill 1/all of the loaches.

The safest med for the med-long route i am finding is the Rid-Ich+ that i am using now. I have heard now from a few sources that Quick Cure and Paraguard also work quite well...

I would recommend to stay away from Aquarisol or any that either uses just copper or the old form of Malachite green, as copper alone doesnt seem to work too well and old malachite green is like treating a headache with a shotgun blast to the face.

Having never had to put much work into aquariums before, it is a bit taxing(also because i have little patience) to deal with a fish who seems to spend most of its day figuring out new and ingenious ways to die on you, however, i think that i have connected with these fish more so BECAUSE they are so fragile, and the extra care they need. I really enjoy coming home and straight to the tank to check on their condition ( much to the dismay of the female of the house).

Furthermore, having put this much time and effort into their wellbeing is going to bring a wonderful sense of relief and satisfaction when things level out.

"nothing good ever came easy"- dont know who said it, but he must have kept clown loaches at one time or another.

[cybermeez]

A word of caution re: Quick Cure.....

If it sits on the shelf too long it seems to turn toxic. Mark, if I remember correctly lost several loaches when he inadvertently used "old" quick cure. I think the formalin in it goes bad rather quickly and (especially given the container it comes in) there's no real way to tell when it has (other than it kills your fish).

Don't give up on your clowns yet. Keep trying. Find the right med for them and they will get better. Once healthy you will see, they are very much worth the effort.

[Xirxes]

Looks like Poseidon is on his last leg... came home today to find him on his side, twitching and panting like mad...
sad part is there is nothing i can do for him... have no Q-tank and no meds for what hes experiencing....
was really pulling for him too

[Baz Bluck]

Got up this morning to find all sign of white spot gone on all the loach, they still remain unhappy though and are swimming near the top. The water is very well oxygenated so I dont know what that is about perhaps the ich has knackered them out. I am continuing the treatment and will do a partial water change tomorrow but everytime I do a water change the spots seem to come back.

[cybermeez]

Got up this morning to find all sign of white spot gone on all the loach, they still remain unhappy though and are swimming near the top. The water is very well oxygenated so I dont know what that is about perhaps the ich has knackered them out. I am continuing the treatment and will do a partial water change tomorrow but everytime I do a water change the spots seem to come back.

Keep an eye on your water parameters and make sure the ammonia and/or nitrite isn't creeping up. If all the tests look good, it means the fish still have ich in their gills and it's making it difficult for them to breathe. Adding an extra air stone might help.

[Baz Bluck]

Funny you should say that because I have just had a heated discussion with my LFS they claim that adding an airstone does nothing to add oxygen to the water. He had an audience and was lecturing all of us customers claiming that it was an old wives tale and airstones are only for decoration - absolutely nothing else. I just cant accept this perhaps I am totally wrong but I cant understand the logic if his claims. He said that a gentle current in a tank was more than adequate to supply oxygen to the water even if treatments for ich were being used. What are your thoughts.

[Mark in Vancouver]

I think an airstone adds minimal oxygen to the water, but it will produce extra current. The primary gas exchange occurs at the surface, which is why you want to have current. But there is no harm in adding extra oxygen via an airstone or powerhead or other means. Fish with compromised respirations WILL benefit from additional O2, particularly in a smaller tank (via airstone) or in tanks without powerheads.

[Baz Bluck]

Have added another powerhead and it is like white water rafting for them in there, at least I know if they die it wont be through lack of oxygenated water, oh and by the way a couple more airstones just in case.

[cybermeez]

Air stones increase aeration in that the bubbles break the surface of the water promoting gas exchange. They don't pump air into the water per se, but any disturbance of the surface helps with O2 and CO2 exchange. It's why pH goes up when you put an airstone into a tank. The smaller the tank the more dramatic the change.

[Baz Bluck]

Thanks for that I reckon I understand this airation business now after all these years I thought the oxygen was absorbed in the water as the bubble passed through it . This was only minimal but the greater number of bubbles the more oxygen was absorbed - surface area and all that. As you can see from my theory I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[mikev]

It's why pH goes up when you put an airstone into a tank.

Thanks for explaining the mystery.

I put a much stronger airstone to provide a playground for yoyo's and noticed that Ph jumped 6.4->6.8.... which is fine, but I could not understand why...

[fusQer]

xirxes and company how are ya'lls ich cases going? I am in the same boat, an ich case that will not go away. I have 4 loaches all about 2", 1 Sidthimunki and 3 Kubotai. The Munki and one Kub. jumped into the filter and were in there for 12 hours at least, and when I got them out they had minimal ich. I immediately began treatment, but the next day or two all 4 fish had ich pretty bad. I began treatment with the new Maracide. All fish were flashing and covered in white spots. after a week of Maracide on odd days and no results, I then tried the 86 degrees+salt method. I did that for 3 days and no results. Then, I tried Quick Ick by Aquarium Products along with Metronidazol (metro only because I had it laying around, and thought sure why not). I did this treatment for 3 days, and all three of the Kubotai's immediately cleared up, however the Munki is and was only getting worse. The temperature has been on 86 since the first day (that I put it to 86). I am now on about day 9 or 10 of the first sighting of a white spot, every loach is still flashing, but only one shows white spots.

I don't know if it was the Quick or the Metronidazol or a synergy of the two, but that seemed to have cleared it for the Kubs. The Sidthimunki however is not so lucky. So, I decided to use Cupramine by Seachem. The LFS advised this on stubborn cases, and said they use it at the get go on all their clown loaches. The label says: "Cupramine is superior to copper sulfate, chloride & citrate: It is non-acidic, less toxic to fish, remains in solution, and does not contaminate the filter bed. It is superior to chelates: it is fully charged (ionic), and active at low concentrations, and is removable with carbon."

I have heard from everyone to never use copper. However this "buffered active copper" seems like the only thing left, as all the ich stuff seems to have malachite green in it, and even though I have used that, it isn't clearing up this one loach. I will try to take photos and keep you guys updated. Today is day 2 of the Cupramine treatment (1/4 dose once a day). The fish is active, sits on top of the thermometer, gasps for air, eats heartily, but flashes alot, and is covered in white spots everywhere.

Do fish that are imminently in danger of dying from ich stop eating first?
Oh I should note that I am also dropping in Maracyn I & II tablets for secondary disease control. Basically I have unleashed everything I have on these fish, and since 3 of them showed positive response, I guess it was ok.