Full grown clowns with a Polypterus bichir lapradei??

[saphphx]

I have a Polypterus bichir lapradei and about... 9 or 10 clown loaches. Once they get at least as large as the Synodontis eupterus and the (possible) Synodontis bastiani which are about 5-6 inches each and have been left alone before I took the lapradei out (she wasn't eating well, so went upstairs) would it be a disaster? My plan is once the Pacu are gone, I will have in my 78"x24"x24" tank:

• 9-10 clown loach
  2 Synodontis eupterus
  1 (possible) Synodontis bastiani
  1 Polypterus bichir lapradei
  1 Tiger Oscar
  4-6 Giant Danios
  3-4 msc plecos

The tank will have a sand on the bottom, slate caves, carpeted plants on most of the bottom, and tons of plants. Its filtered by 2 Fluval FX5s (yes, the over kill ) and 2 Superfish Air Flow 4s, has large "day" light, and a smaller "moonlight" light, with 2 small LED lights for "nightlights" (the pacu are cowards, but they will be moving on soon) Ideas? Thoughts?

- edit! -
Before you say - I know the clowns will get around a foot in size I just think they should be fine at 6 or 7. Ellie the lapradei is not at all phased by other fish, but I don't keep anything bite sized in there just in case

[Emma Turner]

Hi saphphx,

Assuming that the Polypterus has been correctly identified, were you aware that the species in question can attain 75cm (almost 30") in length? Even though you are proposing quite a large aquarium, this tank is not going to be big enough to end up being the final aquarium for this particular fish.

You didn't say how large the Polypterus is at the moment. Adult clown loaches would probably be ok with it, but when it gets to a reasonable adult size, any smaller loach specimens could well become lunch, so getting the sizes right is important. Polypterus feed mainly on other fish in the wild, so anything small must be avoided. Growing the clowns on before you put the two species together is a very good idea, like you said. However, the Giant Danios, for instance, would not last long alongside an adult Polypterus bichir lapradei, particularly at night when they may be resting near the bottom of the tank - a time which the Polypterus will be at it's most active.

I would also seriously think about rehoming the Oscar. It is not overly suitbable for keeping with clowns (even large specimens), and it is definitely not suitable for keeping together with the Polypterus.

Good luck,

Emma

[saphphx]

Hi saphphx,

Hello

Assuming that the Polypterus has been correctly identified, were you aware that the species in question can attain 75cm (almost 30") in length? Even though you are proposing quite a large aquarium, this tank is not going to be big enough to end up being the final aquarium for this particular fish.

I guess she is packed with the Pacu then to be off for new homes. I bought the tank and they all came with it. It is the largest tank I can get in my house, and I truly did not select the fish of my own as I would have never gotten them. The lovely people at MonsterFishKeepers.com identified her for me though. No one has said anything about the 200ltr aquarium not being enough though. I've been told it will take her years to get bigger from this point though. But just the same, I know she will get huge, but I also know like the oscar she has come and gone 6 times and come back each time for the same "moping, laying about, doing nothing, boring fish" except once when she supposably killed a 12 inch fish, but she has never even looked twice at any fish in my tank, so I think she was just getting the blame as the smallest fish she was with was a 5-6 inch synodontis, who she shared a cave and slept with during the day.

You didn't say how large the Polypterus is at the moment.

16 inches

Adult clown loaches would probably be ok with it, but when it gets to a reasonable adult size, any smaller loach specimens could well become lunch, so getting the sizes right is important. Polypterus feed mainly on other fish in the wild, so anything small must be avoided. Growing the clowns on before you put the two species together is a very good idea, like you said. However, the Giant Danios, for instance, would not last long alongside an adult Polypterus bichir lapradei, particularly at night when they may be resting near the bottom of the tank - a time which the Polypterus will be at it's most active.

They are there to be friends for the Oscar. Still don't know if he is going downstairs or not. I've tried getting rid of him but he keeps coming back, and I have decided I kinda like him anyway, but I have enough large tanks where he could stay on his own.

I would also seriously think about rehoming the Oscar.

He has been to 6 homes and back 6 times. He is a horrible fish, that ignores all fish, and mopes everywhere.

It is not overly suitable for keeping with clowns (even large specimens), and it is definitely not suitable for keeping together with the Polypterus.

that's odd. He has always been with her. Over on Oscarfish.com they haven't said anything, except when Pita (the oscar) tried to bite the bichir (who ignored him) then settled down and laid on her, but that was it and they have been mates sense. I have separated them quite a few times, which sends both into a permanent sulk resulting in neither eating for weeks, then when put back together they go back to being normal. They really don't have anything to do with each other, except at night they cram themselves in the same small places even though they both have large hiding places of their own, so I have no idea what they are doing. Not seen any evidence that they shouldn't be kept together, but I do keep a very careful eye on them. Why would you not keep clowns with an oscar though? I am very curious and would like all the info I can get before moving anyone around

[Emma Turner]

Why would you not keep clowns with an oscar though? I am very curious and would like all the info I can get before moving anyone around

Hi saphphx,

You will always find that there are people who say these sort of combinations are ok, and often say so in order to try and 'prove a point'.

However, Oscars vary in temperament from fish to fish, and their aggression level towards other fish can sometimes heighten as they mature. This is not to say that they are the most of aggressive of cichlids, because they are not. They will, however, think nothing of trying to eat any fish that fits into their large mouths. They are also quite a sedentry species that may see the clowns playful antics as potentially irritating. You could not say for sure that a large specimen would not go for other smaller fish within the same aquarium.

Other points to bear in mind are that clown loaches, (as I'm sure you already know) enjoy a good amount of flow in the tank, which the Oscar, preferring much slower circulation, will find a bit too much. Oscars are messy feeders and are pretty gluttonous when adult. Although you will need a decent amount of filtration for clown loaches, this will need to be stepped up some more when you take into account the huge body mass of an adult Oscar in the tank as well.

All in all, not a very good combination in my opinion. There are better tankmates out there for your clown loaches.

Good luck,

Emma

[saphphx]

Why would you not keep clowns with an oscar though? I am very curious and would like all the info I can get before moving anyone around

Hi saphphx,

You will always find that there are people who say these sort of combinations are ok, and often say so in order to try and 'prove a point'.

However, Oscars vary in temperament from fish to fish, and their aggression level towards other fish can sometimes heighten as they mature. This is not to say that they are the most of aggressive of cichlids, because they are not. They will, however, think nothing of trying to eat any fish that fits into their large mouths. They are also quite a sedentry species that may see the clowns playful antics as potentially irritating. You could not say for sure that a large specimen would not go for other smaller fish within the same aquarium.

Other points to bear in mind are that clown loaches, (as I'm sure you already know) enjoy a good amount of flow in the tank, which the Oscar, preferring much slower circulation, will find a bit too much. Oscars are messy feeders and are pretty gluttonous when adult. Although you will need a decent amount of filtration for clown loaches, this will need to be stepped up some more when you take into account the huge body mass of an adult Oscar in the tank as well.

All in all, not a very good combination in my opinion. There are better tankmates out there for your clown loaches.

Good luck,

Emma

I have 2 fluval FX5s, they provide a lot of current on the bottom but leave the top quite still. Pita has never bothered other fish, even quite small ones. May just leave him in the 4 foot on his own though. Don't know. he's not eated the giant danios and they play constantly, so it could be worth a go. Worst comes to worst I move fish back to where they were.