Nooo, i lost a clown, whyyyy? help

[Camo]

Got home from work today and found one of my clowns floating sideways amongst some plants, i prayed he was just being stupid, but alas, he had passed on. So i made haste to the fish shop and bought a test kit just to make sure my water was safe.

My temp is 26/27 degrees celcius
Upon testing i found my

pH to be at around 6.8 and 7.0

Nitrite at 0.5 p.p.m.

Ammonia - I'm not sure, the water test matched against the card came up with 0 and the table where it shows the percentage of toxic ammonia at different temps and pH values, it shows mine at around 0.5

Carbonate Hardness is very soft

General hardness came in at soft

Could it have starved? i feed them 3 times a day, but none of them seem to want to eat, i just bought a worm feeder and noone could care less that there are scrumptious blood worms sitting up in it at the top of the tank.

Pleeeease help me and tell me what i'm doing wrong

[Emma Turner]

How long has the tank been set up for, and how long did you wait before adding the clown loaches? Mature systems should not show any trace of ammonia or nitrIte.

Emma

[Camo]

I set up the tank a week ago, using gravel and water from a tank thats been setup for longer then i can recall, and added 25% tap water, i then added a swordtail and then 4 days ago i got the water tested at the lfs and got what the guy said was good levels, and then added 2 loaches, then 2 ago later i added another 4 loaches as well as another swordtail, as the other fish seemed to be doing fine. Yesterday i did a vaccuum and a 25% water change.

With my lights I've been doing 1-2 hours with the "moonlight" and then 10 hours on with the growlight and then another 1-2 hours with the moonlight, and then lights off. My room is airconditioned during the afternoons and nights and while i'm at work i leave the window open and the fan on. The tank is also positioned beneath a window if that could be a contributing factor, and i have the tank sitting beneath/beside my air con, but i have the vents blowing upwards so the cold air doesn't hit the tank at all...If the window/air con will be causing problems it shouldn't be any problem half emptying the tank and moving it to the other side of the room, but i thought that could cause a lot of stress on the fish, and would probably mess with all the water levels. I had a read through the loach almanac, but am still uncertain if my water is loach-friendly, and when buying the lab kit i forgot to check if it come with a nitrate test...and it didn't so i might take it to the lfs tomorrow and get that tested too

thanks

[worldrallynut]

If you have an adequate heater, it shouldn't matter whether the air conditioning hits the tank or not. Unfortunately, while some bacteria do live in the gravel, most will be found in the filter or other porous materials. It looks like you went way too fast in adding fish. It usually takes 4-6 weeks for a tank to naturally cycle. Loaches should not be kept in a cycling tank. I would try to test the water again or go back and have the lfs test the water. 3-4 days may not have been long enough to even get the ammonia levels to spike (the first step of the cycle, followed by spikes in nitrites and then nitrates), which could explain why the water tested ok when it did. You want to test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Also I would cut back on the feeding to once a day until the tank is cycled in order to help keep the levels down.

[pedzola]

A product like bio-spira, if it is available in your area, may help as well. This is the actual nitrifying bacteria that typically grows in your tank during cycle... its sort of "black magic" though as it seems to work for some people and doesn't for others.

Alternately, I think Prime or similar water conditionars can "de-toxify" nitrite and ammonia.

Someone please correct me if i'm wrong.

[mikev]

BioSpira and Prime can be used at the same time.

Transferring more material (not water, but gravel, decorations etc) from the established tank would work better than any amount of BioSpira. If the established tank has two filters, transferring one to the new tank should solve the problem within hours.

hth

[Camo]

Yeah, i transferred gravel, a few big rocks, water, plants and a big canister filter, which i gave a light clean out of as it hadnt been cleaned in a few years.

I'm gonna take a water sample down to the LFS to get them to check the nitrate levels, if i have the money i'm gonna grab a nitrate test kit and then after that i'll give the tank a vaccuum and get rid of all those uneaten pallets.

After lights out last night i noticed a couple of loaches pecking at the bloodworm feeder. Does it need to be submerged? or can it just float on the water allowing the fish to ...suck? the worms out the small holes? This morning when i turned the moonlight on they were all out and about looking happy.

I wanna try feeding them brocolli, do i need to microwave that? What does the microwaving actually do? and how long is it safe to leave vegetables and worms in the tank for?

[mikev]

Yeah, i transferred gravel, a few big rocks, water, plants and a big canister filter, which i gave a light clean out of as it hadnt been cleaned in a few years.

It sounds like you did everything right, but sometimes it just does not work right away....

I've cloned a tank yesterday, and it still did not fully cycle... usually it does, but one can never be sure.

The safe way is not to put the fish in right away, but put some ammonia and wait for it to clear. With luck it would happen in a few hours, but may take a few days too...just never know.

As for the nitrAte levels, it is good to measure them too, but they are likely not relevant. You need to worry about nitrItes. Prime is the way to deal with it.

[Camo]

So i should go and grab some prime or biospire to give the tank a boost? or is it a bit late for that now? Also, what are Prime and Biospire, just in case i can't find em, what should i ask for?

When i do water changes, what will that do? Raise/lower my pH depending on the tap water quality, will it lower ammonio and nitrate levels?

[mikev]

Prime and Biospira are two different things.

Prime will remove nitrItes from your tank. It will not make it cycled, but you can continue with Prime until it cycles by itself. Prime is simply a superior conditioner.

BioSpira will add more cycling bacteria to your tank. Since you have already added a lot, it _probably_ will not make much of a difference.

Water changes will _usually_ decrease amount of Ammonia, nitrItes, and nitrAtes (unless your tap is very bad).

From what you said, it is not clear if you have ammonia or not, better make sure.

....Hmmm.... question: when you set up your tank, did you declorinate new water? Because if you did not, you probably killed most of the bacteria.

[Camo]

Dechlorinate ? I don't think my citys tap water has chlorine in it, but then again there are a lot of things i dont know. I'll definitely do some chlorine tests on the tank and the tap water when i get home.

[mikev]

Dechlorinate ? I don't think my citys tap water has chlorine in it, but then again there are a lot of things i dont know. I'll definitely do some chlorine tests on the tank and the tap water when i get home.

I don't know which city you live in and which country, but in most places chlorine is added to tap water to kill bacteria... which is probably what happened to your cycle.

If your water indeed contained chlorine, you need to add more bacteria (more stuff from the old tank) and use dechlorinator (for example, the same Prime) on all new water.

Try to find out about chlorine, but if you cannot determine this for sure, assume that the water indeed has it (or has chloramine which is bad too).

[Camo]

oh hay, yeah, our tap water is chlorinated.

the old tank back when he used to do water changes was never dechlorinated either. and when i topped it back up i just used normal tap water. and that tank is now running with out a filter, 90g/240ish L with only 4 fish, dad didnt seem to think it was necessary.

Would my best route be to
1. syphon 50% of water out, add 50% of dechlorinated tap water in, and then chuck in some biospire?

2.Syphon 50% of water out, add 50 % of old tank water in and chuck in some biospire?

3. Just Leave it be and let it run its course?

4. Add some prime and biospire in?

5. Something completely different cos all of the above i mentioned is wonrg



I added an aerator in last night as well

[Camo]

ok, i just did a chlorine test, the tank water came back at 0

and...the tap water...also came in at 0

I'm gonna take a sample down to the lfs and get them to do a bunch of tests

[Camo]

kk, lfs said my nitrate levels were just beneath 10, nitrite levels were i think at either 0.25 or 0.8, she couldn't test for chrlorine there, ammonia levels were fine though.

she asked if i used conditioner for my water changes, i said no, she said that is more then likely what would have killed that loach as i did a water change the same day as i bought the fish. she then recommended me Prime , I was unsure that my small town in QLD Australia would even sell it. and it was nowhere near as expensive as i thought it'd be which is great as i only have 10 bucks in the bank atm and am going on holidays in a week and a bit.

I told her that my chlorine test at home showed both tap and tank at 0, she told me it could be out of date, i get home, tell dad whats going on, and he tells me to test it in the pool *slaps head*why didnt i think of that, and sure enough, the test come back off the chart. He then explains that by the time the water reaches our house, most of the chlorine will be out of the system and that theres probably only a very tiny amount that the test will be hard to differentiate between...or something along those lines

Just to be on the safe side though i chucked about 30-40 drops in my 20gallon tank. This stuff will bring no harm to the fish right? and how long before it kicks in and i will see results with my nitrite test?

Thanks alot
and so very sorry for all this dribbling