clowns are not clowning...advice?

[brochtune]

I'm not yet going crazy, though I'm close. I have three 3" clowns and three smaller, probably 1.5" clowns. The problem is that two of the larger ones (Jules and Vincent) and two of the smaller ones (to be named...) are barely ever seen. Not during the day, not at night. I don't ever see them feed but they must be eating since they are still alive. I peek in and around the tank and can see them moving in their hiding places but they never come out. The only one I see on a regular basis is the tiniest clown of the whole bunch and I can't get too close or he disappears.

So, I end up not going near my tank for fear of scaring them which will keep them in hiding.

Is there any way around this? I have plant cover, floating plants, 3 decent sized pieces of driftwood, dither fish (10 neons + others), and I recently bought a red-tailed shark with hopes that a larger active fish might bring them out. The RTS goes and hides with them for a bit but them goes around the tank.

This is a 4', 65G tank, my water parameters are great, I do regular water changes (20-25%/week) and the other fish are healthy. The clowns have vibrant colours except one (Vincent) who always seems grayed out, but he the biggest, so maybe he's the alpha? I only have about 80 watts of flourescent lighting so I don't think it's too bright for them, but maybe it is.

Spot, the other larger clown, as well as the 3 smaller clowns used to be really active but now just take after Vincent and Jules and hide.

Any ideas? I was thinking of maybe getting a few larger, braver clowns to take the lead, but if I'm doing something wrong, I don't want to end up the same way.

Sorry for the long post, has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks,

-Thomas

[LoachOrgy]

lol, i named my two twin loaches jules and vincent. i also have one named spot....what a coincidence.

do you have a blue moon light. my loaches swim away in fear when i make sudden movements. the larger loaches won't even come out when the lights are on. i find that the larger loaches i own will often only come out in the blue moon light. or at least that i know of. i didn't notice them at night until i got the blue moon light. i often don't see my larger loaches except at 3-4am. they like hiding. if anything, they only come out at 3-4 am and 7am. i hardly see them. try feeding them some cucumber or fruit that sits near the bottom of the tank. maybe they will come out and feed on that.

[NancyD]

How long have you had the loaches? It can take them a month or 2 to get used to a new tank. They are naturally nocturnal so try feeding just after you turn off the tank lights. After they get used to dinner time they'll be ready for you & you can work toward lights on feeding then earlier in the day. Be patient. Try frozen daphnia, all my fish love it.

[brochtune]

lol, i named my two twin loaches jules and vincent. i also have one named spot....what a coincidence.

Hah! I named them from Pulp Fiction, two of my favourite film characters. My third larger clown is "Spot"...not nearly as cool a name...but he has a spot, soo....

do you have a blue moon light. my loaches swim away in fear when i make sudden movements. the larger loaches won't even come out when the lights are on....try feeding them some cucumber or fruit that sits near the bottom of the tank. maybe they will come out and feed on that.

I don't have a blue moon light. I did have one for my last tank (33G) but it didn't seem to encourage them to be more active so I just haven't made one for this tank yet.

I've tried treats but they don't budge. I've pretty much tried everything on the clown loach page on this site but to no avail. If they did come out, it was only for a second and didn't really fix anything.

How long have you had the loaches? It can take them a month or 2 to get used to a new tank.

I've had the larger ones since november/november but I changed from a 33G to a 65G back in January. I've had the smaller ones since probably late January, early Feb.

They are naturally nocturnal so try feeding just after you turn off the tank lights. After they get used to dinner time they'll be ready for you & you can work toward lights on feeding then earlier in the day.

So do you only feed them only once a day? I think I've read about 2-3x a day but it makes sense to establish regularity and basically train them. Right now I feed them sporatically throughout the day. morning feeding, sometime in the morning, night feeding, sometime at night before the lights go off. It could be 5, it could be 8. Not very regular.

Be patient. Try frozen daphnia, all my fish love it.

I'll be patient. Is the frozen daphnia better liked than frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp?

It makes sense that I should train them to be more interactive. It's just difficult since I can't see them, or see them interacting, and that's why I bought them, so I could experience it. I'll start establishing rigorous feeding times now.

-Thomas

[loachmom]

Hi Thomas,

I found this thread interesting because I have been wondering what makes some clowns shy and some not. I have had three of my clowns since November 06 and three since December 06. Not really very long compared to alot of people on this forum--but about as long as you have had yours.

My second set of clowns were very shy when they were in quarantine--terrified of me. I was really wondering how they would act once I introduced them to the other three in the main tank. The first three were not shy at all.
Well, thankfully, all six are out all day now. I have a very busy household with children running by and up to the tank all day. It doesn't bother the loaches at all. In fact, if you want to see the loaches up close, just get close to the tank, and they all come to the glass like begging puppies.

I feed my loaches several, small feeding during the day. Another interesting thing about my loaches is that 5 of them go to "bed" every night around 7:30. Really, they do. One small one still pokes around in the gravel till around 9 PM, but the rest are in their caves. I also keep the room that the tank is in completely dark at night. Maybe that has something to do with it.

I do not feed in the evenings, either.

One thing that came to mind--and maybe you already know this---I have read that if you turn the tank light on abruptly without turning the room light on for awhile first, it can make the fish nervous. Don't know if this is true or not-- but it's an idea.

I hope that your loaches are soon coming out so that you can enjoy their behavior--they are fun to watch.

[LUVaLOACH]

I recently acquired 6 tiny baby clowns and the hide all the time. I find myself having to go and check on them. If I stand around the corner where they can't see me then they are out playing but once they set eyes on me that's it...it's into the caves they go. I truly hope they don't remain this shy.

Kris

[LoachOrgy]

Before I upgraded tanks. My 4 loaches were very playful and would dance for me everytime they wanted food. They were comfortable and would lay on their sides when napping in open space. Even if I would approach the tank they would come right up to me. Since the tank change (about 6 weeks now) they have been more timid than ever. For a good week they didn't even come out of the caves. Now that they are adapting to the new environment I have seen them out and about more than ever before. What has really helped me gain their trust is the blue moon light. The larger loach only come out at night and at 7am. So the blue moon light allows me to get really close to the loaches without them running away now. I find now they trust me more during the day than they have since the move. At first all the smaller loaches would hide. Now they will come and play and dance for me. Just make sure they understand that it is you that is feeding them and I think they will be a bit more brave...

[loachmom]

I think LO and NancyD have made a good point that it takes time for them to get used to a new tank. My first three loaches were in my tank when I was just beginning and had lots of sickness in it. They hung in the corner behind the heater. I didn't have enough hiding spots then. I was so preoccupied with all the sickness, that they may have been hiding from me, and I just thought it was stress.
After I put the second set in the main tank, it took a few weeks till they felt confident. It may have even taken longer than that---I can't remember.

[NancyD]

I suggested daphnia since it's very small it takes many bites to fill up even small fish but so yummy they are apt to overcome their shyness in a feeding frenzy. My smaller fish sometimes take a bloodworm or other larger food & go hide so I don't see them for as long a time. One of my clowns only comes out for the evening meal, the others are waiting for me & breakfast (they also hope for snacks too). I usually feed twice a day plus a veggie meal 3 or 4 days a week.

Maybe the lighting is brighter in the bigger tank? Floating plants might help provide shady areas they'd like.

[brochtune]

I have a very busy household with children running by and up to the tank all day. It doesn't bother the loaches at all. In fact, if you want to see the loaches up close, just get close to the tank, and they all come to the glass like begging puppies.

I'm so jealous. They sound so fun to watch! I have a similar household. My kids are great about respecting their privacy, i.e. not banging on the glass, but they sure do spook the smaller clowns the odd chance that they're out and about.

If I stand around the corner where they can't see me then they are out playing but once they set eyes on me that's it...it's into the caves they go. I truly hope they don't remain this shy.

I feel your pain. I hope they lose the shyness so we can enjoy them like loachmom.

Just make sure they understand that it is you that is feeding them and I think they will be a bit more brave...

That's a great point. If they see my as a big predator and don't link that I'm the provider, of course they are going to hide.

I suggested daphnia since it's very small it takes many bites to fill up even small fish but so yummy they are apt to overcome their shyness in a feeding frenzy.

I'll try it. if any of the larger ones come out they're back into hiding with their mouth full of bloodworm.

Maybe the lighting is brighter in the bigger tank? Floating plants might help provide shady areas they'd like.

What has really helped me gain their trust is the blue moon light. The larger loach only come out at night and at 7am. So the blue moon light allows me to get really close to the loaches without them running away now.

One thing that came to mind--and maybe you already know this---I have read that if you turn the tank light on abruptly without turning the room light on for awhile first, it can make the fish nervous.

Well, it seems that lighting is a key point here. As an interesting note, I kept my lights off today to see if that may play a part and I was able to see ALL of the clowns out. They were still skittish as usual and any exterior movement would send them rocketting to the nearest hiding spot. At least they were out and I'll start to work on the trust issue.

I have some floating plants now, but they really don't cover a lot of the tank floor in shadow. I'll try planting the tank a little heavier with larger plants and once pond season starts I'll get some better floating plants, like duckweed or water lettuce. I also bought the parts today to make the blue moon lighting in hopes that it'll help in the transition to the regular 80 watts of light in the morning and at night.

Thanks so much for all your input and talking about your tanks. It really was a great help!

-Thomas