Possibly Ich

[Ippo456]

I left for the weekend & only just arrived home to find out that some of my clowns have white specks on their bodies & tails
I've never ever had sick fish before & I'd really like to avoid using medications whenever possible.
I noticed the infected clowns are trying to rub their bodies against the gravel.
I read the sticky on Ich & read other info on other fish forums.
Right now, I'm too sleepy & have only done 50% water change.
Tomorrow, I have a spare 10g that I'm planning to use as a hospital tank that I'll move the clowns into.

I have Qs:
1) Where does the Ich parasite come from? I tested the water before I left & water params were all normal.
2) Should I buy one of those medicating aquarium salts? & if yes, should I follow the recommended dosage or less?
3) Or should I opt for Victoria Green instead?
4) Or should I just raise the temperature, no medications, & just wait & see?
5) Do I need to also medicate the other fishies that have been sharing the same tank as my infected clowns?
6) Can Ich be transferable to human?

Thanks in advance for all the help, really appreciate it.

This guy looks especially sick


Notice the white specks ..
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[Fear_The_Loach]

Yup, they've got ich alright. I use a medication that is proven safe for soft-bodied fish like loaches and catfish (the only thing that would have trouble would be the elephant-nosed fishies).

I'd say treat them, and maybe give them salt. Raising the temp just isn't enough in some cases, especially when your fish are so covered.

Good luck.

[Emma Turner]

Ippo, you'll need to treat the entire tank for Ich, so no point in stressing them further by moving them to a hospital tank. You need to get some Ich/Whiespot medication ASAP, they don't look to have it in the earliest of stages. Someone in your area will be able to recommend a product if you're not sure (personally I would not opt for salt).

What temperature is your tank currently on? If all inhabitants of the tank can take an elevated temperature, gradually increase it to 84 deg F. This will help to speed up the cycle and the medication will be able to work more effectively. However, you will need to increase aeration in the tank when raising the temp, this is particularly important. Lower the water level by an inch or so, so that the water from the filter return splashes down on the surface.

And do remember to check whether you need to half dose the medictaion for 'scale-less' fish such as Botia.

Good luck, and get hold of the Ich medication sooner rather than later.

Emma

[mvigor]

1) Where does the Ich parasite come from?

The short answer is that ich comes from the fish store. After you rid your tank of ICH--completely--the parasite will not return without being introduced from a source outside your house.

The easiest way to get rid of ICH, although some disagree, is to put 2 teaspoons per gallon of salt into the water. Increase the temp to 82, add in a fast-bubbling airstone to increase oxygen in the water. The visible ICH parasites will fall off your loaches on the 6th day or so, and the invisible free-swimming parasites will die before the 14th day.

After two weeks you can start doing large PWC to get the salt out.

[Ippo456]

The short answer is that ich comes from the fish store. After you rid your tank of ICH--completely--the parasite will not return without being introduced from a source outside your house.

The easiest way to get rid of ICH, although some disagree, is to put 2 teaspoons per gallon of salt into the water. Increase the temp to 82, add in a fast-bubbling airstone to increase oxygen in the water. The visible ICH parasites will fall off your loaches on the 6th day or so, and the invisible free-swimming parasites will die before the 14th day.

After two weeks you can start doing large PWC to get the salt out.

I've had these clowns for almost a month now & do you think that the Ich only developed after I brought my loaches home?
None of my fishies have ever had diseases before, so I'm scratching my head trying to figure out where the ich comes from.
So far, 1 hatchetfish has died & I hope it's not from the ich
No other fish have died & I'm going to LPS to buy meds right after I post this.

I'm really confused on how to treat my fishies.
MVigor, have you really tried using salt for clowns?
I have hatchetfish & peppered coryfish along with my clowns.
The only scaleless fish I have are the clowns.
Frankly, I don't completely trust the people at the LPS so much
I'll have to see.
Any other suggestions are welcomed.
Thanks so much for the quick reply you guys

[Emma Turner]

The short answer is that ich comes from the fish store. After you rid your tank of ICH--completely--the parasite will not return without being introduced from a source outside your house.

The easiest way to get rid of ICH, although some disagree, is to put 2 teaspoons per gallon of salt into the water. Increase the temp to 82, add in a fast-bubbling airstone to increase oxygen in the water. The visible ICH parasites will fall off your loaches on the 6th day or so, and the invisible free-swimming parasites will die before the 14th day.

After two weeks you can start doing large PWC to get the salt out.

This is not always true. Fish that have been kept in good health for some time (with no whitespot) can suddenly develop it if conditions arise that aren't conducive to their wellbeing. Loaches are particularly easily stressed by a variety of factors, and Ich can come about quite rapidly. This is without any new fish having been added for months or even years.

Salt has been quoted as an Ich remedy and has been used by many people with a good deal of success. However, my opinion on this is that loaches are freshwater fish and do not need the added stress of salt in their water, which may or may not help. I would go with a tried and trusted medication rather than waste essential time dosing with salt. If you don't treat soon enough, you could well end up losing your loaches - they already have a large number of spots which means that it is not in the early stages. I urge someone in your area who might be reading this to recommend you a medication, and advise whether it needs to be half dosed.

Clown loaches are often kept at 82 deg F anyway (mine certainly are) so that is not really much of an elevated temperature. You need to step it up to at least 84 deg F, and an airstone is not good enough to increase aeration. The bubbles from an air stone do not put much in the way of O2 into the water, the only O2 they create is where they break at the water's surface and cause slight agitation. By far and away the best way to aerate is how I have described above - drop the water level to create splashdown from the filter outlet. The more churning you create at the water's surface, the better. Extra powerheads angled upwards are good for this too. The aeration is not only important for the elevated temp where O2 starts to become more depleted, but also because the Ich will be compromising the fish's gills.

Good luck,

Emma

[Emma Turner]

P.S. Ippo, if you can state your location on your profile for us, you may find someone can recommend a specific medication. Treatments vary from country to country.

[shari2]

Ich is usually present in the gills of fish before you ever see the encysted form on the fins or body. Have you done any waterchanges lately with cooler water? What temp do you keep the tank at?

It is true that ich does not just materialize out of nowhere. It is a parasite that requires a fish host to live and complete it's life cycle. In cooler temps the life cycle is longer. Did you recently raise your tank temperature?

There is a debate among aquarists regarding salt as effective for ich. We don't need to get into a debate on that here, it won't help you decide what to do to treat your fish. ultimately it's your choice.

Loaches do not tolerate salt well, generally, which is why most here don't advocate it's use as a treatment for ich or as a general tonic as some suggest.

In any case, yes as Emma said you need to treat all the fish in the tank and the tank itself. And your ich is rapidly advancing based on the coverage on the fish in your pictures. Make sure you add extra aeration, use the med (if that's what you choose to do) at half dose, and don't stop the treatment before all visible ich has been gone for several days.

You should also do a good gravel vac before the treatment to remove as many of the spores that are in the substrate as possible. Make sure you dechlorinate the water and use the same temperature for the return water. If you already have medication in the tank, add the appropriate amount to the return water before you put it in the tank, or after.

I know it's disturbing to see your fish coming down with this, especially since you've had them a while and can't figure out where it came from. The reality is that regardless of how it got there, you need to deal with it, and the sooner the better.

[LoachOrgy]

they look so sad!

[Fear_The_Loach]

I recommend Rid Ich, as it is quite effective whenever I've used it, often clearing up ich in less than a day or so, and it's safe to use with soft-bodies, like I earlier said.

[Ippo456]

I bought Mardel Maracide that contains Malachite Green & Chitosan as the active ingredients.
Instruction states: 10ml per 10 gallon. Treat on days 1, 3, & 5.

The booklet doesn't say anything about the effect on scaleless fish, so I added 17ml for 30 gallon (instead of the recommended 30ml).
I already raised the temperature slowly & now it's at 84 degrees F.
Booklet says that this medicine contains BioSphere & should not disturb the good bacteria already in the tank (including filter).
It also told me not to remove the carbon in my filter (I'm guessing since I didn't have to remove the carbon & the medicated water is also going through the filter, the medicine will also kill the Ich in the filtration system).

I will test water params tomorrow & see how the fishies are.
Friday, I will do another 50% water change & treat again with medicine.
Is Ich transferable to humans?

O .. I'm experiencing a strange result for my Nitrite level.
I don't know if anyone has had this prob before..
I currently use TetraTest Laborett & all measurements are in mg/l.
I was testing for my Nitrite level today & instead of seeing clear light yellow solution indicating 0 mg/l of Nitrite, the solution was FLUORESCENT YELLOW
I honestly don't know what this means .. I even tested it the 2nd time & same result.

ps: I did try to look for Rid Ich & couldn't find it.

[Emma Turner]

Hopefully others who have used this medication will chime in. It seems rather strange to me that it states not to remove the carbon. I would have thought that the medication would have been absorbed?

Emma

[mikev]

Hopefully others who have used this medication will chime in. It seems rather strange to me that it states not to remove the carbon.

Other drugs based on Malachite Green (for example, Ich Guard) do say to remove the carbon, in fact there are even papers explaining the absorbing mechanism.

One more thing on Maracide. I lost my very first clowns to Ich, long time ago, while treating with Maracide (the drug recommended by the lfs, of course). I did remove the carbon, but the drug failed to deliver anyway. Researching this later, I found out that at the time Maracide's formula was changed resulting in a non-efficient med; this is mentioned in several places on the Web, including an old LOL thread. ASAIK, the formula is still the non-working one.

It might be best to change the drug immediately, especialy that the disease is advanced.

Possible choices are Ich Guard, Rid-Ich, SuperIchCure ... even salt+temp method may work better than Maracide.

hth

[Ippo456]

I'll go out to buy another Ich medication.
Should I start over again? As in ignoring yesterday's medication as not working?
Or should I wait until tomorrow to see any progress?
The same fishies still have the white spots & most of all the fishies look unaffected by Ich (at least no visible signs to me).
If I were to medicate the fishies with different meds, I don't want to overdose them .. I don't want dead fishies

I guess this is what I'll do:
Go out & buy another Ich med today, but I'll just wait & see until tomorrow if there is any progress with the Maracide I'm currently using.
Tomorrow, if no progress, I'll do 50% water change & clean the filter.
Medicate the fishies with the med.
Has anyone ever had experience with Ick Guard by Jungle?
I saw this in my LPS & it requires the carbon in the filter to be removed.
"No need to raise the water temperature. Use Ick Guard II on small, weak or scaleless fish. Remove activated carbon during use. After 24 hours, change 25% of the water and dosage may be repeated if needed."
Doesn't say if it's harmful for plants.
Since I think it's a strong med, I'll use less than the recommended dosage.

[mikev]

Has anyone ever had experience with Ick Guard by Jungle?
I saw this in my LPS & it requires the carbon in the filter to be removed.
"No need to raise the water temperature. Use Ick Guard II on small, weak or scaleless fish. Remove activated carbon during use. After 24 hours, change 25% of the water and dosage may be repeated if needed."
Doesn't say if it's harmful for plants.
Since I think it's a strong med, I'll use less than the recommended dosage.

Yes, I used it many times, it works unless there are other complications (second infection, very late start--like in your case).
Ick Guard II is not going to do the job, if anything use the regular one.

Normally, one would half-dose Ick Guard, but in your case, I'd consider going higher.

While Temp increase is not required, higher temp will make the med work faster and thus is a very good idea.

Make sure to increase the aeration as Emma wrote above.

Use fresh carbon to remove the current med, otherwise you really don't know what you are dosing.

If I were to medicate the fishies with different meds, I don't want to overdose them .. I don't want dead fishies

Dangers of overdosing at this time are less serious than the dangers of a massive ich infection. If you have a reasonably fresh carbon in your filter, you are really not medicating now at all.

Good luck.

PS. Anyone around NY has any ich? I'm itching to try a different way and could not find any ich in the stores...it is always there when you don't want it.