GANGS OF CLOWNS

[NancyD]

Circus should be right, I just dislike the Bozo kind, mimes too.
How about: a cotillion of (dancing) clowns or a cluster of (sleeping) clowns, a string of yoyos, a cuddle of khulis, a dotting of kubotais?

But wait there's more! A mountain of hillstreams, a sh*tload of schisturas, a scribble of sewellias, a modicum of modestas, a muddle of moosefaces, a hiding of horsefaces, a puzzlement of pangios, a dabble of darios.

Room for improvement: a barrel of munkis or a loop of chains, a pounce of tigers, a wiggle of weatherfish, a whiff of skunks, a streak of striatas.

Best for last: an attachment of chenis.

OK, I'll try to stop.
Nancy

[mamaschild]

I can agree with whatever you guys decide.....mine are the troop of dancers

Emma, what a FABULOUS Picture How many do you have total, and what size tank are they in? I thought I was getting crazy with 9

[shari]

Now, GANG would certainly fit some of the tiger loaches, or PACK since some of them will actually hunt smaller fishes in packs...scary ferocious buggers they can be

[Martin Thoene]

Mikev makes some very good points:

Regardless of the word chosen, there is a justification for a different word for at least clowns.

Absolutely. If Chromobotia deserves to be a separate family, then the fish deserve a special term for a group of them.

A clown "shoal" is different in nature from shoals of, say, tetras or rasboras.

To a certain extent this is true.

1 It has a complex hierarchy, with a clear leader.

Yes. Tetras and Rasboras rely largely on visual and chemical signals for reactions to given stimuli. Their reactions to given things are more instinctive than considered. The tendecy is for the group is to move as one being.

2 Static defense is not the only reason for shoaling. While other fish will shoal largely to respond to an external thread, clowns are not motivated in this way. If I put my hand into the rasbora's tank I see a nice shoal; when I do it with clowns, they run away or hide or (now) come out to check if this is food-related....just not shoal.

Exactly. The small fish keep a tight shoal as it is the best defence in the open. Quickly, they realize a limited threat and conditioning then turns there attention to if the owner's intrusiion might mean food is coming. The Clowns decide to consider the food possibilities from safe cover. Ultimately, a better survivability strategy.<<

Probably there is a 3 too...

3 might be the fact that social heirarchy controls many of the subtleties of action and reaction.

If there is another loach that shoals in the "clown way" (sids? darios? skunks? -- never had these but possibly one of these has a somewhat similar pattern), the same term should be used for them.

Sids are tight shoalers, but I've not kept them, so I don't know the subtleties.

As for "circus" vs "troupe": while I've tried to promote "circus" before (the very end of this thread), "troupe" seems to be a bit better. I've seen clowns forming an "active defense formation" and the slight military tint of "troupe" appears more relevant than the disorder of circus.

Excellent observation. I like "Troupe" better because "Circus" involves a lot of other acts, plus "Troupe" applies to monkeys where the craziness mixed with social heirarchy has relevance also.

Knot for khulis is quite good.

Yeah, I really like that suggestion from Jim.

Something just occurred to me.... the "Frenchness" of troupe suggested a "Clique" of Clowns to me. Works on a few levels I think

Martin.

[Emma Turner]

I can agree with whatever you guys decide.....mine are the troop of dancers

Emma, what a FABULOUS Picture How many do you have total, and what size tank are they in? I thought I was getting crazy with 9

Thanks mamaschild! My 'bundle' (that is what they are to me!) are kept in a 1000 litre aquarium. We have lost count of how many we have acquired over the years, but we reckon it must be between 40 and 45.

Emma

[Baz Bluck]

Emma what a fantastic picture of your bundle, one question though, how old do you reckon is the eldest in your bundle. I wish I had a 1000 litre tank but then if I did I would have to camp at Billing Aquadrome as I dont have the room here. Martyn knows what a misery that would be.

[Graeme Robson]

but we reckon it must be between 40 and 45

Absolutely amazing! A truly wonderful sight!

[Jim Powers]

As far as the sids go, mine tend to have a very pack-like mentality. They hold tight together and appear to be deliberate in their intent on being mischievous. Often they do the loachy dance in formation with the two rostratas in the powerhead outflow. This seems to be intiated, as are most of their activities, by the alpha sid.
Maybe a phalanx of sids would also apply.

Pile of pulchras comes from the behavior these fish exhibit when you see them in large numbers in a tank.

Now what would be a good name for a group of mixed hillstreams stuck to the glass? I see this most mornings in any of my three tanks that contain these fish . They seem to form groups of mixed species, and mixed body shapes. Gastros, beaufortia, chenis, L. disparis and homalopteras, all stuck to the glass right before lights on.

[shari]

A 'suction' of hillies?

[Graeme Robson]

sidthimunki's Must be known as a "Pack of wolves" Sight wise that is.

[Jim Powers]

"suction of hillstreams"...I like that

[Baz Bluck]

Perhaps '' a hoover of hillstreams'' ?

[Emma Turner]

Emma what a fantastic picture of your bundle, one question though, how old do you reckon is the eldest in your bundle. I wish I had a 1000 litre tank but then if I did I would have to camp at Billing Aquadrome as I dont have the room here. Martyn knows what a misery that would be.

Heheh! Take it from me most of our lounge is taken up with this aquarium, which is our pride and joy! We even had to have building work done to reinforce the floor before we got the tank!
The loach that I have owned the longest is the 9" long Mrs Hoover, who is a grand 13 and a bit years old (although she is likely to be a little older than this as she was around 2" when I got her). But I would think that Marge the 11.5"er and Stripes the 10.5"er are probably older, but I do not know for sure as we rescued them from another shop last year, and they hadn't thought to ask the previous owner any questions.

but we reckon it must be between 40 and 45

Absolutely amazing! A truly wonderful sight!

Yes, it is indeed the most amazing sight! And when you come down for a visit to the shop, you can also come to our house (less than a mile from the shop) and get to meet Marge & co for yourself. I'll even make you a cup of tea!

Emma

[mikev]

Martin, thank you, very interesting comments,

Few more comments on troupe. For reference, the etymology:

1825, "company, band," from Fr. troupe, from M.Fr. troupe "company" (see troop). Trouper is "actor or performer in a theatrical troupe;" transf. sense of "reliable, uncomplaining person" is attested from 1959 (but the first recorded reference describes the usage as "old-fashioned").

Both troupe and troop (they diverged only 200 years ago) have the additional sense of travel, which is applicable as well.

Now, CL's and Monkeys:

plus "Troupe" applies to monkeys where the craziness mixed with social heirarchy has relevance also.

yes, this is very appropriate, and even more can be added! There is another similarity between clowns and monkeys: both are supreme beggers (and so are real troupes occassionally).

Now, one can go further and build a pseudo-scientific theory explaining why CL's and Monkeys are most intelligent in their environments. Just for the fun of it, a few ad hoc assertions about the development of relative intelligence:

1. Longer lifespan (comparing to other similar species)
2. Longer time to reach sexual maturity (ditto)
3. More complicated environment (a bottom fish has to solve more complicated tasks than a top- or mid-feeder; a forest animal has to solve more complicated tasks than a savanna animal)
4. Absence of natural defenses (leads to more complicated active defenses)
5. Good care of the young.

Both CL's and Monkeys pass 1-4 nicely, CL's fail on 5, but we cannot have it perfectly...

And I'm not sure that this is totally pseudo- scientific.

There are also more reasonable criteria to add to the list. Or, perhaps, there is a ready-made list in some theoretical astrobiology paper, if so, it would be real fun to check it against CL's.

[Graeme Robson]

Yes, it is indeed the most amazing sight! And when you come down for a visit to the shop, you can also come to our house (less than a mile from the shop) and get to meet Marge & co for yourself. I'll even make you a cup of tea!

I'm looking forward to the visit, Emma.

PS: Is there a cash-point near your lfs? I'm sure i wont be leaving your lfs empty handed.

Graeme.