Plumbing for tank

[sanjeev]

Hi, I have a ground tank with clowns, tigers, yoyo and moosefaced along with several varieties or barbs, carps, cichlids.. I do not have any plumbing set up. can someone please tell me how this might affect the growth when it comes to loaches ?

[Emma Turner]

Hi Sanjeev, and welcome to Loaches Online.

When you say you have a 'ground tank', is this a type of tropical pond? Do you have any photographs of your tank that we could see?

Emma

[sanjeev]

We basically have this tank out in the garder. Its sort of like a tropical pond. We had used regular tiles and white cement for the wall. This is at my parents place in Cochin. kerala(South India). We had set up the tank about 5 years ago and since then, the first major tank cleaning activity happened last month, when we had taken out all the fish, the rocks, the drift wood, gravel, plants. There is a steel frame that gives shade to the pond. This frame was repainted and pond was out in the sun for a while and we had a huge algae attack. So these days we keep the tank covered almost completly during the day. Lack of sunlight gets rid of algae. I'll take pictures in the evening and post them up here. I'm sure there's a lotta things wrong with how've we've set up the tank. Please feel free to point out whatever you think is wrong. All suggestions welcome.

When we first put in fish 5 years ago, we really didn't delve into the compatibility of the different kinds of fish we kept. Right now the major problem is this blue colored cichlid. I've forgotten the actual name, but I think that this variety is now in its 12th or 14th generation in the pond.

The biggest clown is about 3.5-4 inches long. Five years ago this was about 1.5" . Could you tell me if this is the regular rate at which it grows ? or has my clown taken loger to get upto 4 inches ? I've got 3 other clowns that are about 2 inches and 4 small ones that I got recently.

[sanjeev]

Im still trying to work my camera on manual mode. The Pics are out of focus mostly. Shall get better ones soon.

Tank is about 9.5' X 6' in area and its about 1.5' above the ground and 1.5 below the ground.


Feeding Time - I really need to get rid of the algae


The one on the top-right is the big clown



More Clowns


Drift Wood under the Rock that I picked up from a river next to home


Need to get the algae problem fixed

[Emma Turner]

Hi Sanjeev,

Thank you for posting the photographs. The pond (tank) is beautiful but does need water movement and filtration.

Do you have access to pond pumps/filters in your area? You really need an efficient means of breaking down the waste that the fish are producing. I (and others here) could recommend products to you, but it's difficult because we don't know what brands are available to you. How often do you perform water changes and how much do you change? How much natural rainfall do you get in this area? Clown loaches can grow at a much faster rate than which you have described if conditions are right. They go through the most noticeable growth spurt in the earlier parts of their lives, and then tend to slow down later on.

Even if you cannot add filtration straight away, aeration must be added as an absolution minimum - and the sooner the better. You can buy external air pumps for outdoor ponds. You may well be thinking why do I need to do any of this as the pond has been going ok for 5 years, but, as the fish grow, and increase in numbers by reproducing, you will get to the point when there will be too much bioload on the pond and it will crash. It would be worth your while purchasing a master test kit (ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, and pH) if you haven't got one already, so that you can see what the levels are like and whether they are getting dangerously high.

It's difficult to tell from your photos, but are those Malawi cichlids? If so, they are not really suitable for keeping with clown loaches. Preferred water conditions are very different. The barbs are a good choice for keeping with your loaches though.

One day I hope to create a huge indoor tropical pond for my 40+ shoal of clown loaches.

Emma

[sanjeev]

Hi Emma. Thank You, So much for all your suggestions.

As of now I cycle 50% of the water every 6 - 7 days. This is what has been done for the past 5 years. Would this suffice for the areation problem ? or do you think I should get an air pump anyway? But as you said i really need find to incorporate some sort of filtering system to get rid of all the waste that the fish is producing.

Here in India, although we do export a lot of Oranamental Fish, We don't easily find sophisticated filteration systems and other accessories . I'm Back in Bangalore now. There must be bigger stores here. I'll have a look around. The Algae and the Waste is the main problem.

I didn't quite get your question about rainfall. Actually we get very heavy rains in Kerala from June to September. Monsoons are pretty heavy.

I don't have a test kit either. There are a lotta things pending. All that happened was the water cycling. Once I got outta college I've been away from home for about three years. Everything has sort of been neglected a bit. In Fact, I used to visit this website a long time ago, back in 2003.

Is there any website that has information regarding filters for Ponds ? I would really like to have a look at it. Once I have that, I would know what I should be looking for and I'll try to find vendors for the same over here.

Thanks
-Sanjeev

A shoal of 40+ sounds real cool.

[shari2]

Here's a link to some articles on Indian aquarists. Some pond pics and ideas for you on your type of set up.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/peo ... kumar.html

[Emma Turner]

Hi again Sanjeev ,

When you say that you 'cycle' 50% of the water every 6 or 7 days, do you mean you take out 50% of it and replace with new water? If so, this is what has been keeping your pond going for so long, as you are diluting down the waste products produced by the fish. If you were to add a filtration system to your pond, good bacteria will gradually colonise all the filter media and this bacteria will break down the fish wastes into a less harmful substance (nitrate), which although needs keeping in check, it will mean that you could do smaller water changes, and carry these out much less often.

With regards to aeration, you could either use a pond air pump or perhaps think about plumbing your filtration so that the water is returned to the pond via a small waterfall or fountain. Waterfalls not only look nice/natural, but incorporate a fair amount of oxygenation where the water churns at the surface as it is returned.

I asked about the natural rainfall because you must encounter a certain amount of evaporation of water from the pond, and wondered if it topped up naturally with rain. Depending on how much rain fell i.e. if you took out a certain amount of water, but the rain topped it back up higher than it started, then this would also help to dilute waste products, although not likely by much.

The algae is likely to be being caused by a combination of sunlight and high nitrate/phosphate levels in the pond. The higher these levels, the worse it will be. High nitrates can be caused by overstocking, feeding too much/too often, insufficient amount of water changes, high level of nitrate in the source water (the water you use to do your water changes with) etc. Lack of circulation can also cause algae problems (many algae species thrive in still water) so this is also another good reason to install a filter and create some water movement.

Please feel free to keep asking questions, that's what we're here for.

Emma

[sanjeev]

Hello Emma,

Thats Right, whats happening now is that I remove about 50% of the water and then put in new water. Would it help If I removed around 10% each day ? I'm wondering if this can be a faster fix for the algae problem.

I'm planning to go to some of the stores here in Bangalore for a Pond filter and a Pond Air pump. I think I'll purchase them from here and take them to kerala.

After reading a lot of posts on substrate, im thinking of moving some gravel out of the pond and replacing it with a 2 inch layer of river sand (Maybe about 8 sq ft of area in the pond, with some hiding places and plants. I think this would good for the Yoyos and the zebras . )

Thanks
-Sanjeev

[Emma Turner]

Removing 10% each day would probably soon become a rather tiresome, so until you get the filtration on there, I'd say stick to your 50% routine (but as that's quite a lot to change in one go, you'd need to ensure that the new water is of a similar temperature to that of the old pond water - which is probably something you already check).
There are so many pond filter manufacturers, that it is difficult to recommend specific products, but the following articles may be helpful:

http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles04 ... ilters.asp

http://www.water-garden.co.uk/water_quality.php

http://www.water-garden.co.uk/pond_pumps.php

http://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/read_articl ... 13&search=

As a guide, some of the major pond filter/pump manufacturers over here are:

Oase http://www.oase-usa.com/html/index.shtml (can't find a UK website)
Hozelock Cyprio
Laguna
Blagdon

You may well find that you are able to order online if you can't find anything suitable in the aquatics shops there - there are plenty of online aquatics suppliers around these days. Or you may even find that you could get yourself a good deal on e-bay. It's just a case of searching and reading up on what you want. Be sure to purchase a product that is rated for more than your actual pond volume as the manufacturers tend to be a little bit 'over generous' when stating what volumes their pumps can handle. Over filtering is never a problem, whereas under-filtering will be.

Feel free to ask if you get stuck, and let us know how you get on.

Emma

[roy]

I have a 100 sq feet fish pond in the garden
The pond is located outside the verandah and is only 50% covered by a sloping tiled roof. I have about 5 -7 Koi carp fishes. In addition, there are around 25-30 mollies and 30 of their new babies.I feed them food pellets every morning.
There are few plants in there as well, kept in pots and then placed in the pond. There is a landscaped garden around the pond and rain water does flow through the lawn into the pond in addition to the rain water falling from the edge of the sloping tiled roof. I have tried to partly screen the pond with tall grass and other plants. Every 15-20 days I have to pump out the water and keep the fish in a bucket and painstakingly clean the pond but within a weeks time the water gets murky and filled with algae so dense that it is difficult to see the fishes unless they are at the surface. I could attach pics later. I need suggestions on how to use a filtration system to keep the pond clean and adda small waterfall. Sanjeev were you able to find a good filtration system in Bangalore. I am in bangalore as well.

[Diana]

rain water does flow through the lawn into the pond

Fertilizers from the garden are ending up in the pond and are part of the algae problem. Even if you are not fertilizing the garden very much (or at all) there are chemicals that are fertilizers from birds and animals that wander through, and the natural decomposing that happens in the soil as the garden plants live and die.

Circulating the water through a foam or sponge filter will remove a lot of the debris (fish waste, leftover food) but does little about chemicals dissolved in the water. Adding activated carbon to the filter will help to remove quite a long list of things that may be encouraging the algae, but I would start by barricading the pond from the garden so that no run off lands in the pond. Perhaps building the pond a few inches higher would be enough.

Air bubblers are not a very efficient way of moving water around. You would need a very large one to have enough of an impact on a large pond.
Have a look through the links suggested above. The most efficient way of getting water movement is to place a pump pretty close to the center, bottom of the pond and aim the water upward. The water does not have to fountain up and out of the pond, but should create some serious rippling of the water. What you are doing is taking the worst water (from the bottom, lowest oxygen because the fish and microorganisms have used it all) and bringing this up the the top of the pond where it will react with the air to get more oxygen into the water. The oxygen will benefit the fish and the decomposing organisms that are helping by breaking down the fish waste.
The problem with a pump at the bottom like this is that it can plug up with debris. If you put the pump in an open box that has sponges in it so the water flows through the sponges then the sponges will catch the debris. Then you will need to remove this filter set up from the pond occasionally to clean the sponges.
Look for a pump that says it can handle dirty water, and it will be less likely to plug up with debris.

Shade will slow the growth of algae. Get as many plants growing in the pond and near the pond as you can so the water is not exposed directly to the sun. Water lilies are good, taller plants that lean over the pond are good for shade, but may drop leaves into the pond. Live plants in the pond will also remove a lot of the chemicals the algae is using as fertilizer, leaving less for the algae.

If the fish destroy the plants then I would set up a pump that removes some water from the pond and dumps it into an upper pond or container that can grow plants, something fairly shallow, with a large surface area, and set it up so the water is returned to the pond with a water fall. A separate plant filter like this should be about 10% of the volume of the pond, and the water should circulate through it rather slowly, perhaps once per hour, or less (800 gallon pond, 80 gallon planted filter, 400 - 800 gallons per hour circulation) in this example an 80 gallon planted pond might be a foot to 18" deep, and around 2' x 4' length and width. Whatever size you can accommodate will be helpful, though.

I have a slightly more complex system than this:
250 gallon lower pond, 45 gallon upper pond and a stream between the two. The stream is heavily planted. The pond has small floating plants to shade it and reduce algae growth, as well as a lemon tree to the south side. (Northern hemisphere, sun comes from the south)