White patches on loach

[leighd]

Hi I'm a newbie and would appreciate any suggestions for our problem.

Me and my partner bought our 200L fish tank in October last year. We
bought two clown loaches recently as we were told they are the best for getting rid of snail infestations and they did a great job in the first week or so they were in the tank. Now one of the clowns has white patches and it also looks as though it has fin rot, is breathing heavily and resting on the bottom of the tank alot. We have not much experience with the tank yet but initally we turned the water temp up to 27 degrees and did a half water change. I have just added wardleys fungus -ade and ickaway with the dosage halved. Andrew checked the levels of the tank:-

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrate - 5.0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
P.H. - 7.0
High Range P.H. - 7.4

The clowns tank mates are three gourami's ten tetra's and two peppered catfish. The clowns have stopped eating the snails and the snails now appear to have changed from a brown colour when small to looking almost clear and different shaped, although they may be another species I'm not sure. Are we on the right track to helping our poor little clown.
Thanks
Leigh

[Emma Turner]

Hi Leigh, welcome to Loaches Online.

Sorry to hear of the problem with your clown loach. Can you tell us how long ago the clowns were added to the tank, and if any other new fish have been added recently?

If you turned the temperature up to 27 deg C, what was it on before?

What sort of filtration do you have on the tank, and do you have a good amount of flow and aeration? How often are you performing water changes, and roughly what percentage of the tank volume are you changing?

If you could provide photographs of the affected fish, it may help with a proper diagnosis. You mentioned that you added something called Ickaway (which I presume is a whitespot treatment) - do you see any white spot symptoms with your fish?

Emma

P.S. I hope the store informed you that clown loaches are best kept in social groups of 5 or more, and that in the future they require a tank measuring at least 6ft x 2ft x 2ft.

[leighd]

The temp was pretty low around 24-25 degrees. We have a resun external filter and a an aerator but no flow? I'm not sure what we need for that? We were lax with water changes and probably only did them once a month and we changed approximately 1/3 each time. It now looks as though the white spots are fluffy so it looks like a fungus. I dont think the fish has white spot.

Sadly we were not told how big the fish grow and we were ignorant until I came on this forum. We are not sure what to do now but will try and save the little clown and hopefully someone with a larger tank may take them in.

[img]http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w34/leigh_regan/[img][/img]

[leighd]

Hi Emma,

we got the clowns around 13 weeks ago and one week later got another gourami and a plant. One of our other gouramis got a bloated belly about a week after that and died.

[Emma Turner]

Hi Leigh,

How are the fish looking today? I was hoping one of our Australian posters might have been able to advise on the treatments you are using, as they are not available where I am, but unfortunately no-one seems to have chipped in so far.

It sounds like a fungal or bacterial problem, or both. Remember that it may take 3 or 4 days after adding the treatment before you start to see some improvement. If there are no signs of whitespot in the tank, it is probably a good idea to stop using the Ick Away, as loaches don't tolerate medications well at the best of times. How often does it state you have to dose with the Fungus Ade? Have you removed any activated carbon from the filter so that it doesn't absorb the medication?

If you have only been carrying out water changes once a month, it would seem unlikely that your nitrates would only be at 5ppm unless you have hardly any fish in the tank, masses of plants, and feed very very sparingly. Could you recheck this, and if it comes out the same, check the expiry date of your test kit and take a water sample to a local store and ask them to double check this for you. Test kits have been known to give faulty readings from time to time.

The problems you are seeing are likely to have been caused by stress from a combination of things - the low temperature, poor water quality/high nitrates (with such infrequent water changes), and then more stress from excessively large water changes when they have been carried out (water chemistry differences and temp fluctuation shock). Anyway, I'm sure by now that you realise loaches benefit from small partial water changes carried out once or twice a week and a steady water temperature between 27 and 29 deg C.

I'm not familiar with the filtration that you are using, but generally speaking, external filters are very good for loach tanks as they tend to have more room inside for filter media, which the good bacteria colonise. When speaking about 'flow', I mean current, as clown loaches are river fish and enjoy a lot of water movement. I would imagine you get reasonable current from the outlet of your filter? Whilst you are treating with medication (and especially now that you have upped the temperature) you need to be sure you provide a decent amount of oxygenation. The aerator (air pump?) is ok, but more decorative than anything - the only oxygen it puts into the water is where the bubbles break at the water's surface. You'd be better off dropping the water level in the tank by an inch or so, so that the water returning from the filter splashes down and creates churning at the water's surface, incorporating a much higher level of oxygen. If you have any powerheads, you can angle the flow diverters upwards, again to cause agitation at the water's surface. This will all help to make your fish much more comfortable.

Good luck, and let us know how you're getting on.

Emma

[leighd]

Hi Emma,

Thanks so much for your warm welcome and helpful advice. I'm not sure. He (or she) has been swimming sideways under some driftwood a bit this morning but we got some blood worms and he has been eating them, and last night was playing with the catfish.

Could the nitrate be so low if we only changed the water on friday?
I haven't added any more ickaway like you suggested and the dosage for the fungus aid is 2 drops per 5mls but I have only been adding half due to the tetras, every 48 hours. Yep removed the carbon. We did another water change yesterday and went to the shop to see about a powerhead but they weren't very helpful. He had no idea.

Will do what you suggested and lower the water and see about a powerhead (is that a small filter sort of thing, sorry we still learning!)
and do smaller water changes etc.

Thanks again,
Leigh & Andrew
P.S. did the photo work I was having a bit of trouble with it?

[Emma Turner]

Hi Leigh,

If the fish is eating, that is probably quite an encouraging sign. Keep up with the treatment and let us know how he's getting on over the next few days.

Unfortunately, the photograph didn't seem to come up. Not sure how you went about this, but you need to firstly upload any pics you have to a photo hosting website such as photobucket (it's free) and then add the link to the photo into your message. That way it should come up.

I'm really surprised that the aquatics store didn't know what a powerhead was! Basically, it's a small internal pump that mounts onto the side glass (with suckers) and is used to create strong water movement and aeration. Some come with a small protective cage underneath to stop the fish from being drawn in. A popular brand, Hagen, have something called a Quickfilter attachment that fits on the bottom of their Aquaclear powerheads and this contains a fine white filter pad (which you change as often as is necessary) that will 'polish' the water and take out any really fine sediment. Another brand I'd recommend is the MaxiJet, which come with a small plastic cage that pushes onto the bottom of the unit and protects the fish. You need to make sure that whatever brand you buy has some means of stopping the fish from being drawn in. They are really useful for loach tanks where you are trying to create a river effect, and at times when increased aeration is needed, the flow diverter can be angled to create turbulence at the water's surface. Some even have a venturi attachment which allows the pump to draw in air and expel fine bubbles out through the current too.

Emma

[leighd]

Hi Emma,

Thanks for that info, will look into getting one this week.

Will keep you posted, and I can't thank you enough for your patience
and help!

Take Care
Leigh

[leighd]

Hi Emma,

Good news, the fish is getting better! You were right it took a few days before we saw any improvement but the spots are fading and his fins look a little better too. How long do you think we should continue treating with the fungus aid? Its been a week now, so should we keep going for another week before we put the carbon back in the filter? How are your fishies? Have seen a few pictures of yours and they are amazing! Will keep an eye out for any new ones you post.

Talk soon,
Leigh