Manifold advice needed

[Mad Duff]

I have just got all the pipework for the new 45 gallon river tank, and I already have the 3 powerheads two of which are going to be mounted on the manifold and the other is going to hold a filter cartridge and run a spray bar.

I have just worked out the plan for the manifold and decided to go with three inlet sponges and to help keep flow maximised go with 4 pipes returning to the powerheads, this is were I run into a slight snag.

Do I go with option 1 and place the powerheads at points A+B, A+C or B+C


Or do I go with option 2 and slightly re-jig the pipeing in order to have the power heads more central but evenly spaced apart


Another thing I was wondering is if there is a best flow direction, is it best to have one powerhead pushing flow down the back of the tank and one pushing flow down the front or is it better to have both angled towards the front of the tank to create a better circulation of flow ?

[Martin Thoene]

Neato schematics

Option 1 is basically a no go because you said that you're going to run the 3rd powerhead separate to the manifold with a filter cartridge.

Option 2 looks best to me, but my first ever manifold was 3 inlet, 2 outlet with 4 longitudal tubes. Just depends how you space them. Exactly where you place the powerheads may depend on your plans for siting major elements of decor such as big rocks. Your design would certainly work.
The longitudal tubes help with locating the manifold because you can stick rocks on top of them. I once built a manifold with just perimeter tubing and it was a total pain to locate properly in the tank. Very prone to lifting.

Martin.

[Emma Turner]

Or you could double up on the sponge intakes like so:





Emma

[Keith Wolcott]

I like option 1 with the two powerheads in positions B and C at the front of the tank. In that position, if aimed a bit towards the front of the tank as in your 3rd diagram, you should get some good horizontal circular flow.

Or reverse it and put them in the back with them aimed toward the back. But then the strongest flow is in the back of the tank and is probably not as good for viewing fish that like the flow.

Is your 45 gallon tank really wide enough to use 4 pipes? I ask this since when I constructed several variations, I found that even if I had no space between consecutive T connectors, I ran into limitations because of the width of the tank.

[newshound]

I personally hate those sponges Emma. I find they clog up very easily reducing flow rates. But maybe my tanks are too planted for the fine sponges.

I now cut a HOB sponge filter to fit on the pipe/intake.

[Emma Turner]

That's your opinion, newshound. I actually posted that pic to show the double intake (and subsequent increase in media surface area) for Mad Duff to consider. Admittedly these sponges do clog up from time to time, but never all at once, and considering I carry out water changes 2 or 3 times a week on this tank, it really is no hassle at all to give them a quick rinse out when needed. The flow rates are still good, and this is that tank that 2 species of Sewellia have bred in.

Emma

[shari2]

Have to say I agree with newshound on those sponges. Used them in angelfish grow out tanks as extra biofilters and to keep fry from being pulled into the uptake on the filter. Found they clogged regularly. They aren't hard to swish out, but I didn't like having to disturb the tank so dramatically so often. Water changes in baby tanks were frequent, but kept as unobtrusive as possible. Removing the sponges meant turning off the filter, hands deeply in the tank, gunk washing into the tank...etc. The aquaclear sponges worked far better for me. The babies pretty much ignored those sponges but could be found browsing all over the aquaclears.

[Tinman]

The manifold is such a neat idea. I have a question though. With all the pipe work on the suction side (intake) does the pipe get mucked up? If the pump blew through the pipe it would stay cleaned out better on the discharge side or at least that would be more inline with a typical commercial pump installation. Then you would only have a diffuser directing flow on one end making it smaller and potentially lower visability and you could raise the sponges up higher to make them more accesible on the intake side above the power head but that may affect the river simulation. Now I am not stirring up anything I hope,I am just asking as I decide how to do an old breeder tank myself so I am curious about MadDuffs final decision here.

[Martin Thoene]

I've been operating these systems since 1998/99 and I've never had any problem with a pipe clogging up in any way. If you have cannister filters you've no doubt found that pipework is lined with a slimey baterial film. Same with these pipes. Those bacteria live in a very oxygen-rich high-flow environment and can therefore be very efficient at biological filtration. Also, the high flow will tend to slough off excessive build up meaning flow is not reduced and fresh biofilm is always exposed to the passing water.

I don't understand what it is you're saying Tinman regarding the pump and intakes. Can you explain it differently or do a rough drawing?

I totally wish I knew who the supplier of the sponges I have is/was. I bought them from a shop near Huntingdon, Camridgeshire. They're absolutely brilliant at doing this job and in over 8 years I've only ever had one block and that's because I hadn't cleaned it in weeks and it got covered by a film of BGA. They are 4" high and 4" dia.

Those sponges pictured by Emma are slimmer and therefore less obtrusive, but I've used ones like that just as regular bubble-up filters and found they clogged. I like low-maintenance, so look for a coarser sponge with higher flow capacity. There's a lot of suck on one of these manifolds if you have big powerheads. My clogged sponge crushed down to about a third of its normal size because of the vacuum created inside it by the suction.

Martin.

[Emma Turner]

Just for reference, my manifold runs with 2 Aquaclear 3000's and I probably have to rinse one or two of these sponges out once a month at the most, so it's not really dramatically disturbing the fish on a constant basis. I've found the sponges have come in very handy on a couple of occasions when finding fry in the filter - I could then just take a mature sponge off the manifold (replaced with a new spare) and use the mature one on the air-driven filter they were designed for. My fish browse these all the time too.

Anyway.....I'm sure MD already has his sponges sorted. I didn't mean to start a discussion on sponges mid-thread - the photo was only posted to show the double intake, so maybe we can get back to the manifold itself now....

Emma

[Tinman]

This is rough
http://photosmart.hpphoto.com/FilmStrip ... 721&SKU=HP

I have deep tanks and really appreciate this concept. This works GREAT as is I am positive from yer fishy pics . My concern is that if the pick-up tube becomes too large to maintain suction and draw any debris out that a pile could be created.(the debris from removal of the sponge mainly) Your point is well taken about the algea in the supply pipe though and the suction side may be better for them also. Typically in a large pump install the screen where everything collects is right at the suction side of the pump.I would'nt mind the pumps in my MaGyver set-up but I know some peoples are in living rooms etc. and I was wondering if the pump and sponge could be at the feed end and just a diffuser at the supply end and if so would it/does it(manifold) still react the same?With the pump so low in the tank and not "lifting " very far you probably solved this collection problem .

[Martin Thoene]

Ok, I get it now. The more you diffuse the outlet, the less effective current you get. My basic design gives a primarily one-way flow, but concentrations of flow directly in front of the powerheads. Fish can choose the strentgth of flow they want to experience.
Most powerheads are not designed to provide huge amounts of head-pressure, so any restrictions on the outlet side, i.e. bends in pipes will drastically reduce flow. Pump water around a few bends and then diffuse it through a spraybar and your effective "oomph" will be knocked back a lot.
I get what you're saying as regards hiding the pump etc. One big rock or piece of slate could shield the pump and filter from view in this case.

Martin.

[Mad Duff]

Thanks for all the advice and ideas, I do like Emmas set up becuase this means that the sponges and poerhead can be cleaned on one manilfold while still haveing the other manifold running and that along with the double intakes pretty much solves all the issues I had

Tinman - If I am understanding your drawing right what you are basically saying is have the filter atached to the powerhead and then the outlet of the powerhead is directed into the maifold so that the flow is created from the other end of the tank, so in effect the powerhead is pushing the flow back to itself

So really the powerheads are fitted in reverse like this:

[Martin Thoene]

I clean my sponges and powerheads with the system running Mark. I have a small sponge "log" that's what they cut out of the centre of the sponge. I remove the dirty sponge and stuff the "log" into the top of the intake tube and go wash the sponge. Then I return and swop them and move on to the next one.
For powerhead cleaning.....I bet no more than 3 times a year...... I just switch off the pump I wish to clean, lift it out and plug the hole. The other pump still runs.

Martin.

[Mad Duff]

Cheers for that Martin, that pretty much what I do now - back to sqare one

I think I may just go with the layout of option 2 but I cant decide whether to have 3 intakes or whether to have a singel pipe up the centre and run 2 twin intakes.