Not sure what kind of Kuhli I just got...

[zmo63]

Went to a local chain pet store last week, saw a gorgeous kuhli, and it just killed me to leave him in the store. I refuse to impulse buy animals, and we already have three kuhlis, so I left him.

Spent the next week feeling terrible for leaving him there, so yesterday we went back to get him. The guy at the store said that someone brought him in for trade, and he had been there all alone for a long time.

As we were leaving, I went by the tank one more time and noticed another one in there. So, after spending the night feeling terrible yet again, we went back today and got the other. The same guy was working, and he said he had no idea there was another one in there all this time.

So now we have two new Kuhlis, and after looking through all the pictures on this site, I still can't decide what they are.

They're bigger than my stripey kuhli - 2 1/2 - 3 inches long, and 'taller' than the others. The stripes stay skinny rather than spreading out into the belly color, so my guess is P Myersi... Their coloring doesn't show up well in the pictures, but they're a beautiful deep red with bright orange stripes (and spots).

pictures:



and here's the shorter one showing off his tail spots:



Any ideas?

[loveloaches]

hi there,
they look like Pangio kuhlis to me

[mikev]

The top is one of the species grouped into P.Kuhlii, the bottom is quite likely P.Myersi, judging by the color and regularity. Additional confirmation may be helped by the side view with the tail shown.

The variation of the first loach is a nice one, the extreme case of it is when the entire back is black...I've seen a few of those.

[zmo63]

thanks for the suggestions! I would be kind of surprised if the two are separate species; they do have pattern variations, but the colors, size, and shape are all the same.

Of course, I'm not an expert - that's why I'm here! Here's a better picture of one of them - it shows the color quite accurately.



This is the one that appears on the right in the first picture.

[mikev]

Yes, most likely this one is P.Myersi.

One other way to check this: look at the tail. If it is 50% black, it is probably one of the P.Kuhlii species. If it is 2/3 to 3/4 black it is probably P.Myersi. The tail of the other fish is about 50% black.

From the top photo, it seems that the colors are not the same: one has orange the other does not.

[zmo63]

Ah, that's interesting about the tails. the one you identified as P Myersi definitely does have a majority black tail. And he is the slightly larger of the two, so that would make sense. We'll just have to see how big they grow, I guess!

As for their coloring, it's a nasty trick of the camera flash. They really are the same color.

Reading through the forum, it seems that P Myersi is getting harder to find, so that's kind of exciting if even just one of them is. Whatever they are though, I'm happy. I'm really looking forward to getting them into their permanent home to meet the other Kuhlis.

[mikev]

Ah, that's interesting about the tails. the one you identified as P Myersi definitely does have a majority black tail. And he is the slightly larger of the two, so that would make sense. We'll just have to see how big they grow, I guess!

Don't hope too much. I have more than twenty kuhlis here, and most of them did not grow in length at all. All of them were in my tanks for at least a year. Those who did grow were very small to start with, yours are already 3".

OTOH, you may look forward to fattening.

As for their coloring, it's a nasty trick of the camera flash. They really are the same color.

I may be wrong in what I said too: there seems to be an intermediate form between Kuhlii and Myersi and we don't really know what this is.

A moment ago I looked into my tank and saw three kuhlis hanging from a plant. Two are certain Myersi's, one is very similar to your non-Myesri Kuhli in pattern. No orange in mine, the tail is 2/3 black, and all three fishes are a bit longer than 3".

My third kuhli may be an intermediate form, just like yours,.. we don't really know.

Reading through the forum, it seems that P Myersi is getting harder to find, so that's kind of exciting if even just one of them is. Whatever they are though, I'm happy. I'm really looking forward to getting them into their permanent home to meet the other Kuhlis.

IMHO, Myersi's generally are prettier, but there are always exceptions.

[mikev]

To illustrate the difficulty I took a couple of photos:



The fish above is a very irregular but likely Myersi. This is a female, but currently not gravid.



Same girl in a company of a loach that I don't think is a Myersi but it probably the same species as yours. Hopefully the piece of the animal you see gives you an idea. Notice the color diff, notice that the yellow lines do not cut all the way to the top. I actually like this variation and would like to find a couple more.

[retrofish]

.

One other way to check this: look at the tail. If it is 50% black, it is probably one of the P.Kuhlii species. If it is 2/3 to 3/4 black it is probably P.Myersi.

I didn't know that. I'll have to have a look at mine. Thanks

[zmo63]

Ooh I love those markings! Honestly, I'm just happy mine have enough variation that I can tell them apart. My two black ones - that's just hopeless.

I'm glad to know there's enough ambiguity in kuhlis that I wasn't totally crazy for not being able to identify them. For now I'll assume I have one Myersi, and one unknown-probably-something-similar-to-Kuhlii.

Thanks!

[mikev]

OK, here is one more for the fun of it. This one is usually very reclusive, I've been trying to photo him for a year



The interesting thing is not just the crazy pattern, but that the pattern is redrawn every few months....

[retrofish]

Very cool pattern.

[zmo63]

redrawn every month? do you think it will ever 'settle down'? I hope you take lots of pictures - that's very cool!

[mikev]

redrawn every month? do you think it will ever 'settle down'? I hope you take lots of pictures - that's very cool!

Every several months. Unfortunately, I did not document this. I could observe the process in details only the first time, and it looked like a fatal disease initially, so I did not even think of taking pictures. The next couple of times it happened in a large tank, and this fish is more reclusive than other kuhlis, and especially reclusive at the time of changes --- I think it is also weak when this happens, so it really hides.

What happens is that the black color spreads and weakens, at the peak the fish has normal stripes but very pale, then it re-condences into smaller irregular but solid-color stripes. Melanin redistribution, and probably a form of melanin deficiency.

May be next time...if it decides to do this again.

[mikev]

A partial side view of the pattern-shifter:



Notice that he actually has normal stripes, which are partially eaten out.