Which Kuhli species

[Graeme Robson]

Yeah. Robin. It's seems like something new on the order list in a way or location.

@ Mikev: Depending on species yes, the age range runs lower on smaller species.

It is relevant because you cannot claim what you see in a lfs will happen. That loach was a reason and a one off as far as i'm concerned. Give me your reasons why you think that these pangio's wont grow in length. You (as titled above) do not know which species these are, yet you know their size?

[mikev]

Of course, I cannot predict the future.

But I do have two good reasons:

Firstly, most of the kuhlis I have I bought at about this size from similar shipments 1-2 years ago. None of them grew noticeably, they only fattened.

Secondly, most of the fish is near their species limits. I said 2.5"+ to describe the entire lot, but most of (obvious) Myersi's were at 3"+. So perhaps they have a 0.5" to grow, or less. Not enough for pattern development.

Now, I did buy a couple of Kuhli's at about 2". These indeed grew and I've seen interesting pattern changes with them.


As to my question: I'm fairly sure about P.Myersi's, they are a defined species. I'm very unsure about P. Kuhli/P.Semicincta: when I see shipments like this I simply cannot avoid the feeling that these are defined as merely Kuhli which is not a Myersi and are a mix of multiple species, not described other than in Kottelat paper on local specimen (or species). While I don't know what these are and which locations they might be coming from, I always look at some common characteristics: these may represent a (sub?) species rather than simply similarly looking individuals.

Incidentally, the shipment contained some other variations. There were a couple of degenerate patterns (this may be the patternshifting kind which was discussed here once --- I have one of these). These may be somehow related to P.Malayana. There were a couple of juv P.Myersi's (skinny under 2" but with ultra-thin golden lines), these are at least with potential for watching the growth. There seems to be a strange fish with about 15 short triangular stripes -- I tried to photo it, but no good pictures resulted. But this lemon-color kind was represented in quantity, so it made sense to check if someone knows what these are.

(TBH, part of this interest is thinking about a kuhli tank, or at least sorting out the animals I have already --- either I simply should stick to P.Myersi, or try to find a few P.Semicincta that are certain to be one species.)

[Barracuda518]

Of course, I cannot predict the future.

But I do have two good reasons:

Firstly, most of the kuhlis I have I bought at about this size from similar shipments 1-2 years ago. None of them grew noticeably, they only fattened.

This is what I noticed with the Black Kuhlis I bought a while back. The bigger ones have just gotten fatter and the smaller ones have grown some, but are also fattened. That could also be they are being fed a well balanced diet...

[cybermeez]

Hey Mike,

Where did you see all those Kuhlis? I could use a few more myself.

[Martin Thoene]

You've obviously never seen a truly adult sized P. myersi then Mike. If you theorize that these might only grow 0.5" then you have another think coming.
I've seen P. myersi at fish shows that I described at the time as "Dojos in pyjamas" because that's what they looked like. They're not even close to other kuhli species when fully grown.

I'm not utterly convinced that there are are any P. myersi in that batch. Some of the other species are extremely variable in pattern and color. Whatever they are, they look to be really nice condition fish. I would sure buy a bunch because there's some lovely looking fish in that shipment.

Martin.

[mikev]

Hey Mike,

Where did you see all those Kuhlis? I could use a few more myself.

H2O aquarium, Elmhurst (Queens).

If you want, I can introduce you to the guys there, this way you should be able to choose the fish.

I'd recommend delaying until Mon, give them a week at the store to avoid surprise dieouts...I've seen this happening after a few days with most healthy-looking kuhlis more than once. I'll probably drop by the store tomorrow for other reasons, will let you know how they look. But so far the signs are good.

Incidentally, they also have pretty good Kubs (2"), Helodes (3"), Danios. If you could rescue a couple of Kubs this would be nice....

You've obviously never seen a truly adult sized P. myersi then Mike. If you theorize that these might only grow 0.5" then you have another think coming.

This is entirely possible. Mine are only slightly longer than non-Myersi's, this is all I can go by.

[mikev]

Hi, Cybermeez,

No go on kuhlis. The knot is half the size now, and I saw perhaps ten dead or dying. Sorry for the bad news.

Actually, I'm disappointed myself, since among those still alive/well is one I really would love to have.

It well may be that a properly oxygenated tank and a couple of drugs can change the outcome, but I cannot deal with this and the Wui problems at the same time.

If you want to give it a shot, you can possibly get them for free now... but you better rush.

I am not playing this round, so I consoled myself with some other fish...

PS. And Martin might have been right: upon a close look what I thought were Myersi's seem to be just similarly patterned other sp.

[loachmom]

I'm sorry to hear that the kuhlis are dying off like that. They sure have a hard time of it; wish they were better travelers.

[mikev]

Update: 100% dieout.

I feel pretty badly about this since something really could have been done...Not sure what, since the store does not have a treatment tank (?!), and I did not have a spare at the moment at home...and if I did, a 10g tank cannot be used to treat a hundred kuhlis.

I still don't believe that a mix of 4-5 carefully chosen drugs would have not worked, this was clearly a disease, not just shipping damage.

Sadly, the store guys -- who are good people really, and occasionally very helpful -- simply don't feel like making an effort in treating cheap fish. It is easier for me to convince them to order another hundred then to make some effort to save what they have already. A couple of times I did get them to treat, and it worked out very nicely; but to do this I had to commit to get a number of animals and show up every day to ensure that everything is done right. Could not do it this time, so I feel guilty too.

[lf11casey]

Don't feel guilty. It's not your fault and there is only so much a person can do considering you didn't have the time or space to treat them yourself.