Rapid Breathing

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Hey guys. One of my loaches is hiding in the corner facing the water surface and breathing heavily. I've read up on some other sites and stuff about it being possible parasites or it is just wasting away because it is not eating? I did a 25% water change. Did nothing. When I do put food in for him he goes after it along with his other two clown buddies... that is until the Pleco scares them away and hogs the algae wafer. The clowns wait patiently until the pleco moves on and the clicking begins. The heavy breathing just started yesterday. Should I be worried or am I paranoid? The biggest of the 3 is doing fine but he hides most of the day. The other one of similar size is panting from time to time as well, but then again he is more active so he might just be out of breath. Any insight on what this might be? I don't think it's an oxygen problem, because I have a big airstone in the tank as well. Thanx in advance for reading my post.

[shari2]

First thing test your water. You likely have elevated levels of nitrAte, nitrIte or possibly ammonia.
When did you do the last water change? Did you notice any change in behavior? Could you post a pic? Would help, along with further info on the tank and water parameters.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Hey Shari,

I've been testing the water everyday now to see if there is anything out of the ordinary. I have a 32 Gallon tank, the pH of the water is slightly alkaline (around 7., the total alkalinity (KH) is about 90ppm, chlorine os 0, the total hardness (GH) of the water is a little hard, may that might be it? its about 140pp, nitrite is 0, nitrate was about 18ppm before the water change. During the water change I put in some water conditioner (aqua plus), some cycle, and half the recomended dose of freshwater aquarium salt. The only thing I can think of is the hardness? Maybe should I make the water softer? If that is what you think then what is the BEST way to do that... 'cause there are so many methods out there. Inside the tank I have 3 clowns, two platies, a common pleco, and two sailfin mollies (which had babbies yesterday and I've caught 14 of them and are now in a breeding trap, very exciting). So yeah... any ideas would help. I'll try and take a picture now, but all my photos end up blurry. Thanx for your help.

[shari2]

I've read up on some other sites and stuff about it being possible parasites or it is just wasting away because it is not eating?

Is the clown also thin? What do you feed besides algae wafers?
What's the filtration? This the first you've noticed the heavy breathing?
I'm assuming you used the salt to assist their breathing? Or do you generally have some salt in the tank for the mollies? Saltwater has a lower dissolved oxygen content than freshwater. Try lowering the water level so there is surface splash and see if it helps. Also, clowns and salt don't mix well unless you are using it for some specific purpose keeping them in salted water is not so good...

pH at 7 is fine. I wouldn't start messing with the pH. your water parameters seem ok. Maybe someone else can chime in on the hardness issue? (not my forte How long have they been in the tank?

[Pixelated_Pirate]

He looks kinda skinny... but the thing is, it's not like he doesn't want to eat... he is still eating. And yes you were right, I did add the salt for breathing... I have read that the salf improves gill funcition and healthy gills etc. This is the 1st and only time I have added salt. Ummmm, as for filtration, I have an AquaClear 50 (good to filter 50 gallons and I only have 32), an AquaClear 50 powerhead (for current cause the loaches love to play in it) and a air pump with a large airstone that is at the back of the tank nearly half the width of the whole tank. I did that because I wanted to prevent lack of oxygen. The loaches themselves have been in there for about 2 weeks. I've had loaches before but the tank got ick and I'm tryin' again. I tried to get a photo but I can't find my camera, only my cellphone... and it is way to blurry. As for what they eat. I give them algae wafers (has vitamin C and spirlulina), sinking shrip pellets, and "complete diet sinking tablet for bottom feeders and invertibrates", they also eat flake food that has sunk, and freeze dried blood worms. My loaches in the past haven't eaten plants, but the one that is doing the rapid breathing has been eating my amazon swords, maybe its a dietary problem?

[shari2]

I really don't know what the problem might be...wish i could help more.
Doesn't seem to be the water. I doubt it's a dietary issue you seem to be feeding a decent diet. The skinnyness could be due to parasites, and if it is something in the gills that may be it.

How long did you wait after the ich episode before adding the clowns? Are you sure you completely eradicated it? Was the tank ever empty of fish hosts for a while? If your other fish were treated already and survived they may not be showing signs of ich due to having developed a certain level of immunity after your treatment (that's if they were in the tank when you treated?).
If it's still a silent presence in the water, it would affect the gills first...keep an eye out for spots, just in case.

mikev...what do you think?

[mikev]

mikev...what do you think?

Not much, especially that I'm in a nearly identical situation myself (got clown babies, smaller than the size Emma says should be sold and from a bad source, and not happy about their behavior.. just cannot pinpoint the cause yet).

Mostly, it is wait and see.

Make sure that the tank is comfortable (hiding place). Make sure it has lots of air. Maybe add a powerhead to provide some current. Minimize the amount of stress, don't move things in the tank, dim the lights. Lower the water level, as Shari said above, this is really the best O2 tool available (I *always* lower water level in qtanks with new loaches, even problem-free --- extra O2 does not hurt.)

I'd not use salt in this case (I'm not anti-salt, btw, I used it in a number of cases, when I had reasons to, but this is not one). If there is a feeling that the fish does not get enough O2, use Meth Blue instead: it is an O2 conductor and also will kill some possibly present pathogens. Use light-blue concentration as not to damage the biofilter.

And, of course, I'd deworm, I do this the moment I put the fish into the tank.

As for Ich: if there are any reasons to think that it may be present, I'd treat without waiting for a visual confirmation. (In my parallel case it was present, but I think I've eradicated it already)

Good luck!

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Yeah I guess I could drop the water level. None of the other fish are experiencing any stress what so ever. I wated a month after I trated for the ick, the only survivors was the pleco and 1 platty. They are still in there now. I just set up a qtank 3 days ago, I have two goldfish in it to cycle it. It's a 10gal. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to move the loach into the tank with the goldies?

"And, of course, I'd deworm, I do this the moment I put the fish into the tank."

What is deworming?

[mikev]

Do you guys think it would be a good idea to move the loach into the tank with the goldies?

IMHO, no.
Firstly, it is too late anyway, if the new loach brought in some disease, you aready infected your tank.
Secondly, not a good idea to move a loach that may be weak..
Thirdly, not a good idea to put clowns into tanks that are not fully established.
And I'm not going to say about Clowns and GF...

"And, of course, I'd deworm, I do this the moment I put the fish into the tank."

What is deworming?

Treat it with a drug that kills internal parasites. A popular choice around this forum is Levamisole.
I typically deworm right away since if the fish brought in worms that can reproduce in the tank, I want to kill them before they laid eggs all over the tank.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Will E.M. tablets work?

http://www.backyardstyle.com/shop/index ... ypage-3751

If not, where can I find this Levamisole?

[mikev]

EM has no effect on parasites. It is an antibiotic (anti-bacteria) and about the worst one too.

You can get levamisole from a number of places, by googling for Levamisole+Soluble, for example:

http://petsupplies4less.com/i_016013-1_ ... .17+gm.php

$15 + Shipping (which is *cheap* comparing to other meds, like PraziPro).

You will get a 500ml bottle, mostly empty, with a little powder inside, add water to the 500ml mark. I used one bottle cap for 10g.

---

Another drug that may be carried by your lfs, is UltraCarePX, see this old thread:
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... le+soluble
on how I used it.

hth

[mc1r]

Have you considered gill flukes, Ive been experiencing similar symptoms with a b.almorhae (my partner named her belly she was gravid when we got her from the lfs she was already quite big ((now 7")) and was a re-home.
I introduced another b.almorhae about eight weeks ago (another orphan) with disastrous consequences I lost three 6 year old clowns (quarantine tank on the way).
Initially I thought it was ick as one of the clown seemed to be showing signs but the other two never did, I treated with malachite green and although the yoyos got better sadly my clowns died.
Three weeks ago it came back, rapid breathing and flicking and the new b.almorhae died. After a bit of research I have been treating for gill flukes with a product called sterazin from waterlife and a week into the treatment (last dose Sunday) and she is 100% better.
I hope this is of some help.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

The loaches have started flashing. I think it may be the parasite things. Shit... I'm gunan go out to the fish store now and get somthing to help them. Should I isolate them so the other fish don't get anything, or should I treat them in the main tank incase there are flukes or w/e on the plants?

I'm gunna head out to the shop now, hopefully there will be a reply by the time I get back =(

[mikev]

The loaches have started flashing. I think it may be the parasite things.

or Ich, or something else, or nothing (I've seen occasional flashing with loaches moved to a tank with different substrate and no disease involved). Examine them for Ich carefully.

If it is gil flukes, Fluke Tabs is an effective product, albeit dangerous (may kill fish).

I think it is too late for isolation, you now need to treat the main tank against whatever this is.

Good Luck

[Pixelated_Pirate]

My delema is this, I don't wanna medicate the big tank because there are 15 small molly fry in there. And the small tank has only been set up for a week now with two goldfish in it. I used cycle and stuff to speed up the process but yeah. Should I medicate the loaches in the big tank, the small tank? Or move the fry to the small tank? This is a sticky situation.