Rapid Breathing

[mikev]

It is very hard to give a good answer...the moment a new unquarantined animal goes into a permanent tank, you have many lives at stake, and sometimes treating one fish means killing another.

What to do now depends on the drug involved...

Levamisole is pretty safe, but it is for internals only, treating the big tank is IMO ok, and deworming is an important thing to do regardless of the current problem (flashing)

Fluke Tabs can be quite dangerous, better confirm the diagnosis before treating. But if you actually brought in gill flukes, you will have to medicate the big tank anyway. I'd probably move the fry out with this drug.

If you end up treating for Ich, you will need to halfdose because of both loaches and small fish, but if you have Ich, all the animals need to be treated.

Try to diagnose the problem as best as you can, because of your fry drug experimentation is more dangerous than normally... And the next time please put the new fish into a qtank for a month first.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

I do intend to... I picked up some meds... I'm gunna take all of your advice and try to figure this one out. Thanks for all the help. I'll PM you with the results when they come... I hope they live. Not just because they are so cute, but so we can confirm what was the problem so people in the future that come across this will have a solution.

[mikev]

Best of luck to you and your loaches! -- and please do update us when you have more info.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Hey guys... I'm here with an update. I decided to move the 3 clowns to my 10gal hospital tank, they seem to be doing a little better but not at 100%. (There are two goldfish in there with them). I tested the water in the qtank the day I moved them and everday after that... it mostly has better water then my big tank... so I am certain the water peramiters is not the problem. I bought some fluke medication. It didn't do much, so after that I've tried some antibacterial pills and "General Cure" pills because I am out of ideas. I've uploaded some photos, the pictures aren't the best but my camera sucks. Hopefully some of the photos might bring in some more hypothesis. In some of the photos the clowns look ok, but I assure you they are breathing heavily and gills are redish. Let's start with the photos. (Please right click and save the photos so you can zoom into them and look at them clowns)

1: This is my main tank from wich I moved the clowns. Notice the molly fry in the top right



2: This photo is a close up of the 18 fry.



3: This is a photo of the hospital tank. It is also the clearest photo of one of my clowns. The best clown picture is the one infront of the rainbow coloured plastic amazon sword type plant. (Please zoom in to take a look) The other big clown is in the house i made him out of a candle holder pot(you can see his back) and the 3rd clown is hiding by the orange yellow plant and in back right.



4: This is an attempt at a close up of one of the clowns. Try to notice his gills are a little red. I'm sorry theses are bad pictures.



5: This is another picture of the same clown, to demonstrate how shitty my camera is, notice the red gills now?



And that's it. Please download the pictures to zoom in on them. If you can not zoom in please tell me and I will try to zoom in and upload the zoomed in version, or give me your e-mail and I will send you the file.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. The clowns are doing a little better, but are still breathing and seem stressed. I don't wanna loose them, any ideas at all are welcome. Don't be shy.

[shari2]

How long has the tank been set up and when since then did you add the clowns? Were they in there while the tank was cycling? Is/was there flashing? (fish rubbing themselves or their gill areas into a piece of decor or on the substrate like trying to scratch an itch)

Red gills could be indicative of ammonia burns. Or gill flukes, as was suggested.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/flukes.htm
and a link with a number of captions with links to other articles:
http://en.mimi.hu/aquarium/gill_flukes.html

[mikev]

any ideas at all are welcome. Don't be shy.

OK...since I don't have to be shy...please borrow a camera from a friend and post better photos...there is nothing that can be discerned here.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

any ideas at all are welcome. Don't be shy.

OK...since I don't have to be shy...please borrow a camera from a friend and post better photos...there is nothing that can be discerned here.

Yeah... lol, I guess I'll have to try that. My cameras are ok... maybe its just the setting or how to take photos of fish? Like, should I set the camera to sport shot (fast moving) or night shot (cause of the darkness) or what? cause I used close up mode and they end up blurry. And the far away shots I used flash. In photos number 3, the clown looks pretty normal right? But then again it is from far away... Since all my friends are working right now, I'll see if I can zoom in on the pictures to show you the clowns.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

The main tank has been set up for 6 months. I moved the clowns to the qTank, which was set up for about 3 weeks. I was cycling it with the gold fish. The clowns only started flashing after about 3 days in the qTank.

Here are some close up photos of the clowns. They almost look like they are fine. This is so confusing.









I know the photo quality is poor. But does anything look unhealthy, like hte gills or w/e? Are they skinny?

[mikev]

Nothing obviously wrong seen....

The animal appears active, and even if on a couple of pics it seems skinny, it well may be nothing. I'd still run it through a dewormer, and then watch for a while to see if it eats well and fattens.

[shari2]

they do look a little thin, but if you feed them up that might be all they need. Keep an eye on if they eat enough. what temp is the qtank they are in?

You say they are flashing now? Rubbing the gills? no spots that I can see. Are they breathing rapidly or labored? Are their dorsal fins (the ones on top) always held down as in the pics or do they spend a lot of time with them up? Clamped fins is indicative of them not feeling comfortable. (for many reasons)

[mikev]

(I think it is only one animal on all photos)

The point about the dorsal is a very good one. Check if it is lowered when the animal sits on the ground, if it is, something is certainly out of order.

Flashing is often but not always a symptom of a disease. I've seen flashing when I moved _healthy_ fish to a tank with different substrate, it seemed that the loaches were testing the ground....and if you feel an urge to scratch your back it does not yet mean you have a melanoma. But lowered dorsal, if it is consistent, is a pretty bad sign.

[Pixelated_Pirate]

Hey guys,

Thanx for the replies.

I was checking them out because they finally started eating again after de-worming. I put the lights out for tonight... I will check tomorrow about the dorsal fin. I noticed on one loach, a tiny white spec, like ich, so I treated for that raising the temp to 80f (it was 26c prior to the raising for ich), and putting half the recomended dosage. Since I did that they seem to have stopped flashing. Since the deworming and "general cure" medication cycle was done, I thought I had nothing to loose with by tratign for ich since I saw that one spot and I didn't want to let any more appear. *IF* this problem of rapid breathign was dueto ich, how come it has taken almost a whole week for a spot to appear? I hope it is just ich, because I feel confident that if at least I know what I'm up against I will havea chance of saving them. I hope the rapid breathing stop soon. Yeah the loaches look kinda skinny, but they ARE eating, at least once a day... somtimes they seem uninterested. So yeah, I'll take note to observe the dorsal fin and report back tomorrow. Thanks again for helping me out guys. Me and my clowns appreciate it. Aside from the skinnyness, are the gills any redder then usual in the pictures, or is that how they normally are?