Sudden Death of Clown

[saphphx]

One of our clowns (2.5 inches) suddenly died today. He was swimming nose up in a corner for a while then took off, now he is dead and it looks like his slime pieled off. My husband says the water is fine, but is changing some anyway. I know our gaurmi has had black markings on his fins and tail since we rescued him, quarinteened him and added him to the tank, but he has clamped fins as well now, could that be related? Husband says he is treating the tank for something he saw the other day one one of the fish (he's useing a broad anti-bacterial at half dose for the clowns) but they all have looked fine until today.

I guess I am just really sad the clown just died. Its not like them to just suddenly snuff it.

thanks all

[saphphx]

Just went through the tank and we have 4 other missing clowns. What a crap 4th of july! All the little clowns have vanished!

[Bitey]

To be clear, your husband recently started medicating them?

Usually, fish problems can be traced to any recent changes made. That includes medications and even water changes themselves.

[saphphx]

yeah, a week or two ago he started I think.

We found the smaller clowns, not sure how many, but I think they are all accounted for, now its just finding the hiding place they were in lol.

[KLKelly]

I wonder if the antibacterial medication crashed the cycle. I would check ammonia and nitrite levels as a precaution.

[saphphx]

he says its "all ok" so I guess the water test was all normal. He gets moody when I bug him about the tank, but it was one of my clowns that died, so I'm a bit moody about it as well.

[mikev]

Sorry about your problem.

If the fish is new (say, under 2 months, and especially under 1 month) than it is IME far more likely that the cause is a disease that came with the fish rather than the medication.

It is unfortunately not uncommon that new animals do fine for a while and then a disease (that came with the animals) develops, I've seen this happening several times after 3 weeks of quarantine, and at least once after 6 weeks.

To be more sure it would be best if you could check the water parameters yourself and post them, and also mention exactly which meds were used and how; this will also allow for guessing which other med may be effective.

If the fish was in the tank for a while (say, 3 months or longer) and was doing fine, then the suspicion should be directed toward some change you made: medications, bad tap, very large nitrates, etc.

hth

[saphphx]

last fish was added 2-4 months ago and stayed for about 4-6 months upstairs before that.

Will check the water first thing in the morning. All I see around his tank is an anti-fungal by intrapet. The rest I keep upstairs and he never goes up there.

[saphphx]

Water is:

Nitrate between 10 and 5 (the colour is in between those two)
Nitrite 0
Ammonia (between 0 and the next one up but closer to 0)
pH 7.6

We lost one of the big clowns :'( I am uber sad. Nothing wrong looking with him, just on his sides and stiff, fins and all.

[mikev]

Does not seem that you have enough of ammonia etc to cause the problems.

Given what you have said, I'd suspect tap water as the source of some chemical contamination. This is not the only possibility, since you might have introduced an infection with plants or live food (any of these used in the last 3 months?).

It is hard to say what is the contaminant...one avenue to explore is to try to locate other fishkeepers in your area, see if they also have unusual problems and perhaps know something about their cause.

Regardless of the exact contaminant, it is quite possible that chemical filters can take this out.

I'm having a problem with tap myself; here I've added a carbon filter, a phosphate removal filter and Purigen and doing this stopped the deaths. It turned out later that it is the first two filters that did the job, and I have a better way of dealing with the problem now, but at the beginning, if you don't know what is the pathogen, perhaps best is to try to cover all the bases.

One problem you have is that you cannot medicate with these filters in...so best to recheck all the possibilities of introducing an infection first, and only when you are convinced it is not likely, add the filters.

Conversely, if you have these filters in place already, or after you install them for two weeks the problems continue, a possibility of infection should be reexamined.

You should try to run through possibilities since causeless deaths do not happen by themselves... As an example, one more possibility to consider: is the tap water you use chlorinated? If YES, and strongly, it may be that some chlorine gets into the tank. If NO, tap water may bring bacteria or protozoa with it...so it is back to the infection possibility.

hth; best of luck.

[saphphx]

nothing new in the clowns, no live food, no new plants. Actually took some plants out that were looking a bit rough.

Tapwater seems fine. It is chlorinated my husband uses a de-chlorinater, but I don't and I haven't had any problems with my tanks, and did some the same day as he did. (I only use half the recomended dose as I'm mean to my hardy fish - but the more touchy ones get dose and a half, don't ask, I screwed up one week and when I went to use it normally fish started dying so I went back to useing it wrong lol)

I'm stumped. I am guessing the gaurmi's fin clamping is related, but there is nothing on him. Apparently my husband was useing a very weak mix of meth blue, then switched off to an anti-white spot as there was something on one of his rasboras, but everyone has been spot free for ages. At least a week, but I know you have to keep treating for a bit once the spots go as it could stil be free swimming and stuff.

The tank I did on the same as his currently has spawning cories in it :/

[saphphx]

OH! BOGWOOD!

he added bogwood 2-3 weeks ago. it was dried and cleaned though not boiled as its to big for a pot, but was supposably "ready to use" bogwood, but I still made him soak and rinse it.

[mikev]

I doubt it is bogwood....quite unlikely to have any surviving bacteria on it, and would not have parasites unless it is a used piece which had some nematode eggs on it.

Probably, tap, but see below:

Let me give two examples on bad stuff in tap:

1. There were a couple of reports of yoyo loaches dying after water changes... whatever it was, it was quick-acting.

2. In my case, I had a period of random deaths in multiple tanks, eventually traced to low-level arsenic contamination (industrial phosphates tend to come with it)... this was a very slow-acting poison which over weeks damaged the livers and eventually led to deaths of mostly smaller animals.

This is not an exhaustive list, there can be a lot of bad things in tap water.

Do you have any chemical filters in now? (Carbon, Phosphate, Organics, Polyfilter.... )
--

Now, since you have mentioned ich: this is a possibility. It is unlikely but not totally impossible that clowns will have it only in the gills but not on the body...before doing anything else, examine all the fish for white spots. If you see anything, re-treat for Ich for a week.

[saphphx]

I would have to think its something in the water but the first death was before the water change.

there is carbon filters and stuff in it, yes. Its a ehime pro 2 with all fittings and shineyness.

[mikev]

I would have to think its something in the water but the first death was before the water change.

it was after the previous water change... Some pathogens take time to kill.

there is carbon filters and stuff in it, yes. Its a ehime pro 2 with all fittings and shineyness.

How fresh is the carbon? If it is older than 2-3 months, it is not very effective.