Southeast asian biotop, stones yes or no???

[Ded1]

I am giving my best to give my clown loaches the most looking "natural home" enviroment I possibile can. Even buying RO next week, to make water parameters ideal for them.

Anyway, I got this very silly information that I personally find hard to believe, so i decided to ask you more experienced Botias guys and gals

I know clowns dont care from what material their hiding places are made, but I do.

Right now I use 3 driftwoods, covered with java moss and Microsorum pteropus attached on those driftwood. A lot of space in cave, very little light and I even keep riccia fluitans above to meke even less light.

Guys love it, I know that by seeing them all the time swiming around = not hidding, they are less shy, in short - they like their cave and in case of "danger" they are right in there.

Anyway. I got better scenario for cave that includes some stones. And i suddenly get information from some people that claim that: " there are very few stones in Clown Loaches natural habitat and you should stick with cave made of wood or roots etc..."!

How true this statement is? I find it silly, but since I dont go very often to Borneo or Sumatra, I cant really know. I enyoj in making it look as natural as possibile for them. Anybody from Borneo in here ?

p.s. there is one interesting thing. All "plans" all suggestions from various internet sites, books regarding "southeast asian biotope", almost never include - stones !

[chefkeith]

The biotope is seasonal. There is a rain season, with seasonal flooding.

The rivers and tributaries where most clowns are found won't have many rocks. Think tropical forest. Just lots of tree's, driftwood, soil, and layers upon layers of peat. The peat is said to be 10 ft thick in the floodlands. The water may be pitch black, coffee, or tea color with a very low pH because of the peat. Not really what you want for an aquarium.

I haven't heard any stories of clowns being found in the fast flowing streams along the mountainside. Maybe during rain season they can go upsteam, but I've never heard anything of it though.

Here's a good link about Danau Sentarum-
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Introduct ... a093827516

[mistergreen]

some picts for you of malaysia & borneo.
All found here
http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_se_asia_pool.htm





and an article of what it's like in borneo
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/tra ... orneo.html

I had it bookmarked

Oh, and it would be ashame if I leave this out
http://www.loaches.com/articles/a-river-runs-through-it

[Ded1]

Thanks guys, great links and good description of the place from you chefkeith. My impression of the how the place looks like is exactly like that. More "organic", less stoned, dont know how to express myself.

I will read those articles, because I am truely interested in how natural habitat of clowns really look like.

In meantime, I did find this great article that is focusing mostly on that and guy only confuses me even more. It is written by some Swedish guy ( Ola Ahlander ), and after I concluded that stones are rare in clown habitat, in that article of Borneo this picture among others is posted:



I am not sure is this picture from a tank, or original picture, because it is in the middle of the article that speaks about natural habitat of Chromobotia macracanthus.

I am posting link to entire article at the end, but in the middle the guy writes: "In my opinion it looks best if the holes are built with larger rounded stones and roots to copy the natural habitat of Clown loaches"

ARTICLE http://www.bollmoraakvarieklubb.org/art ... 0loach.htm

It is up to each one of us to decide I guess

[Martin Thoene]

Ola is an old friend of Loaches Online and very knowledgeable. Some of his pictures are being used in the forthcoming book "Loaches", due out in November.

One thing that must be remembered when considering natural biotopes is that any given river may have different zones so it's very difficult to be certain about any one piece of it being definitive habitat for a given species. Especially with a highly mobile species like Clown loaches.

Therefore, within certain parameters one can choose to replicate a tiny piece of any one part in the aquarium. So it more or less comes down to personal choice as to what one includes in any given set up.

Certainly one can set water parameters (which again are changeable in nature) to approximate those in the wild, use a substrate which is sympathetic to the natural river bed....if it was mud you wouldn't want THAT in your aquarium right?......and choose species of plant that naturally occur in those areas. At best an aquarium represents an impression of nature, not a true replication.

Martin.

[Mad Duff]

Whether or not stones appear in their natural habitat Clowns like most other Loaches love to forage and they love foraging under stones and pebbles, Quite often I will drop a fair few trumpet snails under a medium sized cobble and the Clowns know they are there and once they get their noses underneath and find them they go wild until all the sails are gone, its great to watch

[palaeodave]

Whether or not stones appear in their natural habitat Clowns like most other Loaches love to forage and they love foraging under stones and pebbles, Quite often I will drop a fair few trumpet snails under a medium sized cobble and the Clowns know they are there and once they get their noses underneath and find them they go wild until all the sails are gone, its great to watch

Video please

[Mad Duff]

Video please

Once they are in their new 7ft home which was built this morning I will see what I can do

[Ded1]

Ola is an old friend of Loaches Online and very knowledgeable. Some of his pictures are being used in the forthcoming book "Loaches", due out in November.

One thing that must be remembered when considering natural biotopes is that any given river may have different zones so it's very difficult to be certain about any one piece of it being definitive habitat for a given species. Especially with a highly mobile species like Clown loaches.

Therefore, within certain parameters one can choose to replicate a tiny piece of any one part in the aquarium. So it more or less comes down to personal choice as to what one includes in any given set up.

Certainly one can set water parameters (which again are changeable in nature) to approximate those in the wild, use a substrate which is sympathetic to the natural river bed....if it was mud you wouldn't want THAT in your aquarium right?......and choose species of plant that naturally occur in those areas. At best an aquarium represents an impression of nature, not a true replication.

Martin.

I have nothing to add. You said everything so well and kinda answer all my questions with this post. Very nice!

[Martin Thoene]

Why thank you

There are certain species that we can be more specific on when it comes to providing as natural as possible environment in the aquarium, but with Botiine loaches I think we have to have far more artistic license.

Nonn Panitvong has posted underwater pictures of Botia, Syncrossus and Yasuhikotakia species in their natural environments before here on LOL and generally if you took an aquarium sized chunk of that and put it into an aquarium it would be quite boring visually.

Martin.

[Ded1]

Martin, I am serious. For months, maybe a year I am debating, asking, consulting with people, how does true natural habitat of Clowns looks like? How should we achieve that in tank.
And fact is, you can`t. Perfectionistic aquarism is impossibile in this case, and individual aquaristic freedom of choice is the only option left.
Water parameters, biotopic plants and other fishes living in that biotope is possibile, but after that, "gray area" begins.

..Months of my assumptions, you have put in one post, so...thanks

if I may ask just question about a book in November. Is it 100% that book will be published ( not asking about month, but will it be published at all) ?

[Martin Thoene]

The book is currently in the production stages. Mark and I have both reviewed a manuscript that has been altered and annotated with production notes about text placement. Photographers who's pictures are being used have all signed contracts. It is most definitely happening.

Already listed:

http://www.amazon.com/Loaches-Natural-H ... 399&sr=1-1

Martin.