R.I. P. FLIPPER!(updated water test)
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Ok so what should I do? Should I get prime at the lfs? I am about to take a trip over there. And I only have ammonia test and ph test. What other test should I get?
This seems like such an isolated inscident. The upside down cat and flipper are bunk buddies so I think they were both in the same space. I took out the larger tank ornament and I want to keep an eye on all the loaches for a while. I think I may switch the ornament to something more open for now. Something I can see them at all times in. I am doing another water change now. But the water looked crystal clear the day before when everything seemed fine. I came home the next day and Flipper was acting strange. By the end of the night he was dead along with upside down cat.
I noticed a piece of the tank ornament came off at the bottom. It appeared to be brown or black. I think some type of bacteria in the sand deteriorated it. I am contemplating removing this sand.
If anyone can suggest a good packet of chemicals that I can pickup for backup in case this happens again I would really appreciate it.
Also, would it be better to move the fish that has the burn to my other tank where the ammonia level is 0? I have a small tetra tank that I could move the fish to if this happens again.
This seems like such an isolated inscident. The upside down cat and flipper are bunk buddies so I think they were both in the same space. I took out the larger tank ornament and I want to keep an eye on all the loaches for a while. I think I may switch the ornament to something more open for now. Something I can see them at all times in. I am doing another water change now. But the water looked crystal clear the day before when everything seemed fine. I came home the next day and Flipper was acting strange. By the end of the night he was dead along with upside down cat.
I noticed a piece of the tank ornament came off at the bottom. It appeared to be brown or black. I think some type of bacteria in the sand deteriorated it. I am contemplating removing this sand.
If anyone can suggest a good packet of chemicals that I can pickup for backup in case this happens again I would really appreciate it.
Also, would it be better to move the fish that has the burn to my other tank where the ammonia level is 0? I have a small tetra tank that I could move the fish to if this happens again.
All your loaches are belong to me!
Hey LO, could the collection of waste in the space where both died be the problem ?The evidence would be 2 dead in the home 
, the bottom of the ornament rotted the crusty sand under the ornament,the low spot in the tank usually collects the waste.
Maybe you could scoop all that bad sand out of that spot and get a pipe or something that would let current flow through and you can toss the ornament as it has proved detrimental to the fish either way....
, the bottom of the ornament rotted the crusty sand under the ornament,the low spot in the tank usually collects the waste.Maybe you could scoop all that bad sand out of that spot and get a pipe or something that would let current flow through and you can toss the ornament as it has proved detrimental to the fish either way....
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Emma Turner
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Lo, I'm so sorry to hear about Flipper. I know how attached you were.
It may also be worth you getting a Seachem Ammonia Alert, which is a small disc that you stick to the inside front glass of the tank. It changes colour if ammonia starts to build up and would be a good quick-check indicator.
Best wishes,
Emma
I know how attached you were.It may also be worth you getting a Seachem Ammonia Alert, which is a small disc that you stick to the inside front glass of the tank. It changes colour if ammonia starts to build up and would be a good quick-check indicator.
Best wishes,
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
Guys,
thanks so much for all the recommendations. I just picked up a bottle of seachem prime and ammonia lock. I also picked up a big ornament that is more open that is in the shape of a treasure chest. Now all the loaches will just have to face me daily and quit being so shy. they have hiding spots but they will be easily visible if something is wrong.
Tinman, I think your right on. I have some kind of feeling its the ornament. When I flip it upside down. tons of gunk comes out. I think flipper and upside down had one of the tougher to reach spots for their bed.
The pleco already hates me for removing his stump. I may put the smaller stump back in. It seems to clean easily and only a few loaches can fit in. The treasure chest is very open and I don't believe debris will get stuck. On the downside, they can't hide as much.
Emma, that sounds like an excellent product. That is definitely something that is a great invention. Wow, I am still just blown away that it happened so quick like that. The water was crystal clear looking the day before. I will look out for one probably tommorow when I go to the lfs again. I tested the water for ammonia again, it seems to be consistent as the first. I did several water changes. The water still has a yellowish tint to it. I added ammonia lock 5 minutes ago. All fish seem extra happy and even though all loaches are out in the open, they seem very playful and will dance for me. This is a good sign. Usually when they are scared, they run away. I added several new plants to the tank but only anubias fern. Big Al's didn't have any java fern.
thanks so much for all the recommendations. I just picked up a bottle of seachem prime and ammonia lock. I also picked up a big ornament that is more open that is in the shape of a treasure chest. Now all the loaches will just have to face me daily and quit being so shy. they have hiding spots but they will be easily visible if something is wrong.
Tinman, I think your right on. I have some kind of feeling its the ornament. When I flip it upside down. tons of gunk comes out. I think flipper and upside down had one of the tougher to reach spots for their bed.
The pleco already hates me for removing his stump. I may put the smaller stump back in. It seems to clean easily and only a few loaches can fit in. The treasure chest is very open and I don't believe debris will get stuck. On the downside, they can't hide as much.
Emma, that sounds like an excellent product. That is definitely something that is a great invention. Wow, I am still just blown away that it happened so quick like that. The water was crystal clear looking the day before. I will look out for one probably tommorow when I go to the lfs again. I tested the water for ammonia again, it seems to be consistent as the first. I did several water changes. The water still has a yellowish tint to it. I added ammonia lock 5 minutes ago. All fish seem extra happy and even though all loaches are out in the open, they seem very playful and will dance for me. This is a good sign. Usually when they are scared, they run away. I added several new plants to the tank but only anubias fern. Big Al's didn't have any java fern.
All your loaches are belong to me!
Does it feel smooth when you touch it or more like sand paper? If it is smooth it could be something like chalcedony - not a bad thing. If it is rough it could be a sandstone and that could create a problem. Certain sandstones will leach chemicals or minerals that can change water chemistry when soaked. Where did you get it? Did you purchase it at the pet store or pick it up out in the wild somewhere?
See, to a geologist, a rock is never "Just a rock".
See, to a geologist, a rock is never "Just a rock".
Linarite
The rock looks like one sold around here as Rainbow rock. It is available in fish stores, already drilled, or at rock yards. The red-orange bands are a fairly dense sandstone, the white is softer, but not soft enough to crumble. I can work it with masonry tools.
I have this rock in several tanks including soft, acidic water and hard, alkaline water. Not an issue with any of my fish- Discus, Shell dwellers, lots of Loaches, Cat fish, Cichlids...My Synodontis eupteris stays in one of the tunnels I drilled almost all the time. He (she?) comes out to eat, but retreats to the safety of the rock most of the time. The rock has some texture to it, but not sharp enough to scratch or cut a fish.
I have this rock in several tanks including soft, acidic water and hard, alkaline water. Not an issue with any of my fish- Discus, Shell dwellers, lots of Loaches, Cat fish, Cichlids...My Synodontis eupteris stays in one of the tunnels I drilled almost all the time. He (she?) comes out to eat, but retreats to the safety of the rock most of the time. The rock has some texture to it, but not sharp enough to scratch or cut a fish.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
tank stats today. i have changed the water at least 4 times. once 50 and 25. Two times at 25%. giving at least an 8 hour gap between wc.
water temp is 78 degrees
1) nitrates: 0-5mg/L or ppm it appears to be between 0 and 5. I cannot tell the difference on this chart. It looks like its somewhat between the two colors being orange and yellow.
2) nitrites: 0 ppm
3) ph: it appears the ph has dropped significantly to 6.0-6.2. its usually 7.0. test a few days ago was 7.0 when flipper and uc were having problems.
4) ammonia: between 0-.6 ppm. this is as close as the test goes. it is more towards the clear part. but just between clear and the slightly shaded .6.
any tips. I am about to test the tap water again.
tap:
1) ammonia: 0ppm
2) ph: 7.2-7.4. woah big difference.
3) nitrite: 0ppm.
4) nitrate: 0ppm
the tap water was tested without the addition of water conditioner. this is straight tap water.
i added a tiny bit of prime in my last water change. could this be why the ph is so low?
water temp is 78 degrees
1) nitrates: 0-5mg/L or ppm it appears to be between 0 and 5. I cannot tell the difference on this chart. It looks like its somewhat between the two colors being orange and yellow.
2) nitrites: 0 ppm
3) ph: it appears the ph has dropped significantly to 6.0-6.2. its usually 7.0. test a few days ago was 7.0 when flipper and uc were having problems.
4) ammonia: between 0-.6 ppm. this is as close as the test goes. it is more towards the clear part. but just between clear and the slightly shaded .6.
any tips. I am about to test the tap water again.
tap:
1) ammonia: 0ppm
2) ph: 7.2-7.4. woah big difference.
3) nitrite: 0ppm.
4) nitrate: 0ppm
the tap water was tested without the addition of water conditioner. this is straight tap water.
i added a tiny bit of prime in my last water change. could this be why the ph is so low?
All your loaches are belong to me!
pH will be more variable if the carbonates are low. Can you test for carbonates? Test might be labeled alkalinity, carbonates, KH or buffer.
To go from so many water changes (tnak pH ought to be really close to the tap's pH) to something close to 6 so fast suggests there is something causing the acid reaction, and little or no buffer to stabilize the pH.
I have not known Prime to alter the pH, but I have only used it a long time ago, when the KH was always present in my tanks.
To go from so many water changes (tnak pH ought to be really close to the tap's pH) to something close to 6 so fast suggests there is something causing the acid reaction, and little or no buffer to stabilize the pH.
I have not known Prime to alter the pH, but I have only used it a long time ago, when the KH was always present in my tanks.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
pH is not a 'stand alone' quantity. The chemicals in the water determine what the pH will read.
Technically, pH is a measurement of Hydrogen ions. When there are a lot of H+, the pH reads acidic. When there is very little H+, the pH reades alkaline.
A buffer is a chemical that accepts H+ and releases it, depending on what else is going on in the water. A buffer tends to stabilize the pH, grabbing minor excess of H+, and releasing H+ when there is less H+ in the water.
One of the most common buffers in aquariums is Carbonate. This is measured by any of several scales. The 2 most common are ppm (parts per million) and German degrees of hardness. Ppm is the same as mg/l.
1 degree = 17.9 ppm.
An aquarium that has very little KH, has no way of moderating the amount of H+ in the water. A small source of H+ added to the water can cause the pH to drop very fast.
Fish can usually tolerate changes in pH. It is the attendant chemical changes that can occur with changes in pH that can shock the fish. One example is Ammonia.
Ammonia exists in 2 forms. The amount of each is dependent on the pH of the water. When the water is acidic, low pH, the ammonia takes the less toxic form of NH4+. When the water is more alkaline the Ammonia takes the more toxic form NH3.
If the pH was high in an aquarium, and the ammonia was building up for some reason (decomposing organic matter such as dead fish, fish food, waste, dead plants and a lot more) the fish might show symptoms right away. Ammonia burns the gills, and the tender tissue in the fins. Their skin may react, creating more slime coat to protect them.
Then, for whatever reason the pH drops. The ammonia is less toxic. The fish are still having trouble, because ammonia burns do not heal that fast. Sometimes the fish survives but never really heals fully.
Another problem with low KH and low pH: The nitrifying bacteria do not like these conditions. Nitrifying bacteria thrive in slightly alkaline conditions, with water hardness at least 3 degrees, and their optimum range is about pH 6.5 to 8.0, KH and GH (general hardness- a measurement of minerals) from 3 degrees on up. In much lower pH the nitrifying bacteria will not remove the ammonia very well, and may die. This allows the ammonia to rise.
Something IS happening in your tank. While we may question which came first: Low KH (still to be tested, actually), High ammonia, or low pH, there is also the concept that all three are linked.
Here is what I would do:
1) Add ammonia controling stuff to the tank. Prime, Amquel, whatever you have, and monitor ammonia and pH. You might not see a drop in ammonia, because some test kits will read the locked up ammonia, which IS still there in the tank.
2) Get a test for water hardness. it might be labelled KH, alkalinity, Carbonates or buffer. Test tap and tank.
3) Test some tap water for pH right out of the tap (7.2-7.4?) and set some water aside in a glass, and test it every 24 hours for 2 or 3 tests.
Post back with these tests.
4) Get some zeolite. This is a white kitty-litter-looking stuff that adsorbs ammonia. Put some in the filter in a mesh bag (cut up some nylons make a pretty good bag) and change it every other day. Zeolite can be recharged and reused.
Technically, pH is a measurement of Hydrogen ions. When there are a lot of H+, the pH reads acidic. When there is very little H+, the pH reades alkaline.
A buffer is a chemical that accepts H+ and releases it, depending on what else is going on in the water. A buffer tends to stabilize the pH, grabbing minor excess of H+, and releasing H+ when there is less H+ in the water.
One of the most common buffers in aquariums is Carbonate. This is measured by any of several scales. The 2 most common are ppm (parts per million) and German degrees of hardness. Ppm is the same as mg/l.
1 degree = 17.9 ppm.
An aquarium that has very little KH, has no way of moderating the amount of H+ in the water. A small source of H+ added to the water can cause the pH to drop very fast.
Fish can usually tolerate changes in pH. It is the attendant chemical changes that can occur with changes in pH that can shock the fish. One example is Ammonia.
Ammonia exists in 2 forms. The amount of each is dependent on the pH of the water. When the water is acidic, low pH, the ammonia takes the less toxic form of NH4+. When the water is more alkaline the Ammonia takes the more toxic form NH3.
If the pH was high in an aquarium, and the ammonia was building up for some reason (decomposing organic matter such as dead fish, fish food, waste, dead plants and a lot more) the fish might show symptoms right away. Ammonia burns the gills, and the tender tissue in the fins. Their skin may react, creating more slime coat to protect them.
Then, for whatever reason the pH drops. The ammonia is less toxic. The fish are still having trouble, because ammonia burns do not heal that fast. Sometimes the fish survives but never really heals fully.
Another problem with low KH and low pH: The nitrifying bacteria do not like these conditions. Nitrifying bacteria thrive in slightly alkaline conditions, with water hardness at least 3 degrees, and their optimum range is about pH 6.5 to 8.0, KH and GH (general hardness- a measurement of minerals) from 3 degrees on up. In much lower pH the nitrifying bacteria will not remove the ammonia very well, and may die. This allows the ammonia to rise.
Something IS happening in your tank. While we may question which came first: Low KH (still to be tested, actually), High ammonia, or low pH, there is also the concept that all three are linked.
Here is what I would do:
1) Add ammonia controling stuff to the tank. Prime, Amquel, whatever you have, and monitor ammonia and pH. You might not see a drop in ammonia, because some test kits will read the locked up ammonia, which IS still there in the tank.
2) Get a test for water hardness. it might be labelled KH, alkalinity, Carbonates or buffer. Test tap and tank.
3) Test some tap water for pH right out of the tap (7.2-7.4?) and set some water aside in a glass, and test it every 24 hours for 2 or 3 tests.
Post back with these tests.
4) Get some zeolite. This is a white kitty-litter-looking stuff that adsorbs ammonia. Put some in the filter in a mesh bag (cut up some nylons make a pretty good bag) and change it every other day. Zeolite can be recharged and reused.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
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