R.I. P. FLIPPER!(updated water test)

[chefkeith]

I use to have alot of that rainbow slate in my tanks. Last year, I tested it in RO water for a few weeks and found that it greatly increases the TDS of the water. Those rocks combined with CO2 injection and driftwood made my high TDS problem even worse. I've removed all those rocks because they are not inert. I made alot of mistakes back then. The water bridges compounded the problem too.

I doubt that one rock can make a big impact in your tank though. A TDS meter will tell you if it is though.

I hope you figure out what's going on soon.

[Diana]

I see I have to get a TDS meter, then. Are you sure that rock contributed to the TDS? What mineral or other was actually appearing in the water?

[chefkeith]

I tested each type of rock individually in a separate container. I didn't test for any specific mineral though, just TDS.

[Diana]

I see. Hmmm... Any hints on a reasonably priced TDS meter?

[chefkeith]

I got mine from
Ebay seller e*SeasonGear

They have a TDS meter for $15
Also have a tds and temperature combo meter for $19

Free Shipping to U.S.

I got this one-
http://www.eseasongear.com/hmditdpotdsm.html


They are now packaging them specifically for aquariums-
http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds4tmaquapackage.html

http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/tds4tm.html

[LoachOrgy]

thanks for the info guys.

[LoachOrgy]

pH is not a 'stand alone' quantity. The chemicals in the water determine what the pH will read.

Technically, pH is a measurement of Hydrogen ions. When there are a lot of H+, the pH reads acidic. When there is very little H+, the pH reades alkaline.

A buffer is a chemical that accepts H+ and releases it, depending on what else is going on in the water. A buffer tends to stabilize the pH, grabbing minor excess of H+, and releasing H+ when there is less H+ in the water.

One of the most common buffers in aquariums is Carbonate. This is measured by any of several scales. The 2 most common are ppm (parts per million) and German degrees of hardness. Ppm is the same as mg/l.
1 degree = 17.9 ppm.

An aquarium that has very little KH, has no way of moderating the amount of H+ in the water. A small source of H+ added to the water can cause the pH to drop very fast.

Fish can usually tolerate changes in pH. It is the attendant chemical changes that can occur with changes in pH that can shock the fish. One example is Ammonia.

Ammonia exists in 2 forms. The amount of each is dependent on the pH of the water. When the water is acidic, low pH, the ammonia takes the less toxic form of NH4+. When the water is more alkaline the Ammonia takes the more toxic form NH3.

If the pH was high in an aquarium, and the ammonia was building up for some reason (decomposing organic matter such as dead fish, fish food, waste, dead plants and a lot more) the fish might show symptoms right away. Ammonia burns the gills, and the tender tissue in the fins. Their skin may react, creating more slime coat to protect them.
Then, for whatever reason the pH drops. The ammonia is less toxic. The fish are still having trouble, because ammonia burns do not heal that fast. Sometimes the fish survives but never really heals fully.

Another problem with low KH and low pH: The nitrifying bacteria do not like these conditions. Nitrifying bacteria thrive in slightly alkaline conditions, with water hardness at least 3 degrees, and their optimum range is about pH 6.5 to 8.0, KH and GH (general hardness- a measurement of minerals) from 3 degrees on up. In much lower pH the nitrifying bacteria will not remove the ammonia very well, and may die. This allows the ammonia to rise.

Something IS happening in your tank. While we may question which came first: Low KH (still to be tested, actually), High ammonia, or low pH, there is also the concept that all three are linked.

Here is what I would do:
1) Add ammonia controling stuff to the tank. Prime, Amquel, whatever you have, and monitor ammonia and pH. You might not see a drop in ammonia, because some test kits will read the locked up ammonia, which IS still there in the tank.
2) Get a test for water hardness. it might be labelled KH, alkalinity, Carbonates or buffer. Test tap and tank.
3) Test some tap water for pH right out of the tap (7.2-7.4?) and set some water aside in a glass, and test it every 24 hours for 2 or 3 tests.
Post back with these tests.
4) Get some zeolite. This is a white kitty-litter-looking stuff that adsorbs ammonia. Put some in the filter in a mesh bag (cut up some nylons make a pretty good bag) and change it every other day. Zeolite can be recharged and reused.

thanks. diana, i tested the tap water its below my signature. 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, ph 7.2. ammonia 0. this was done yesterday. i will keep running tests tonight when i get home to make sure it isn't the tap. I believe my filter already has zeolite in it. it looks like cat litter. i will get more at the lfs.

[Diana]

Thanks, chef! $15 sounds very reasonable!

Loach Orgy, zeolite fills up with ammonia rather fast. You can recharge it by soaking it in strong salt water solution overnight, then rinsing in RO water. Even the tap water with no ammonia will be ok to rinse it.

Test also the tap water after it has been sitting out for 24 to 48 hours for pH.