I'm having a problem with NH3

[linarite]

I need some help please -

I put a Mardel NH3 indicator in my tank on Saturday. Sunday morning it showed a reading of ~0.02 so I did a ~30% water change. It appeared to get a little better. Got home Monday evening and it was back up so headed to the lfs and picked up some Prime. Did another ~30% water change with the Prime. Today is it still at 0.02 even after adding another dose of the Prime. I have cleaned the gravel, cut way down on what I was feeding and even ran the loaches out of their fav hiding place to make certain that I didn't have one that died and was fouling the water. The only thing I know to do is either another water change which will run the risk of upsetting the bacteria balance or changing out the indicator. I did just notice that the filter housing seems to have some algae growing on the surface. Could this be the cause? Any ideas?

Thanks.

[mistergreen]

how big is your tank & how many fishes?

prime will make NH3/NH4 safe for the fish but I think it'll still register in the tank.

[linarite]

I have a 30 gallon tank with 5 loaches 1.5 to 2 ", 4 cory cats 1", 3 tetras 1" and one pleco at 2".

Until I started messing with things everyone seemed to be normal. Now the loaches are way upset with me but felt like I needed to check their hidding place to be certain everything was clean.

[grizzlyone]

Prime, Prime, Prime...

[Diana]

I would double check the accuracy of the indicator. Do you have any other ammonia test? Can you take a sample to the store and will they test it for you? If you do this, make sure you get the actual results, not just "It is fine".

[ckk125]

BTW, that tank will be overstocked if not already.

[linarite]

I stopped and got an API brand test kit this evening on my way home. The NH3 is still about 0.25ppm so I went back to my lfs and purchased some Ammo-Chips to put in the filter. Since I am running a system with two cartridges I put the recommended amount in each one. I have set a timer for one hour and will test again then.

As for the tank, this one was a gift from a friend. I have already made plans for bigger one within the year. Just trying to decide what size I can fit into the room. I would like to have at least a 75 gallon but may see if I can find a 125 gallon that will fit.

[grizzlyone]

Ammo chips will reduce the ammonia by taking it out of the biofilter.

Since it takes a while for the biofilter to adjust, you are essentially starving the bacteria that you need for a mature biofilter.

I thought saying PRIME, PRIME, PRIME should have made the point.

Kevin

[linarite]

Kevin,
I have added 4 or 5 doses of Prime since this all started. Can I over do this? That is my biggest fear --that I will overdoes and hurt my fish. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks

[grizzlyone]

Not unless you go really crazy...the whole idea behind prime is that you convert the ammonia to a non-toxic form....one that the bacteria can convert. You are really defeating the purpose of putting Prime in by using the ammochips...You essentially take out of the system what Prime converts to non-toxic form for the bacteria to digest and convert. You don't need the ammo chips. Prime will take care of Ammonia, Chlorine, Nitrate and Nitrite.


Its also useful when you set up a new tank....it will keep new tank syndrome from happening and if you use it in the maintenance doses, you never have to worry about anything except disease, PH and TDS....


Kevin

[Diana]

To control ammonia I would start with water changes, then add the ammonia controling product as dechlorinator (Prime is a good example) Follow the directions about additional doses of whatever product you are using.
If the ammonia is not taken care of by the nitrifying bacteria then more water changes, or zeolite might be needed.

The problem with the zeolite is exactly as stated: It removes the ammonia from the water which is good news for the fish but bad news for the beneficial bacteria. Sometimes, you just have to get rid of that ammonia, though, and deal with the bacteria later.

Here is another point: SOME ammonia tests will show positive for ammonia when the ammonia is actually locked up in a relatively safe form. Go to the web sites of both the dechlor (Prime? Amquel? Other?) and the Ammonia test (both the disc, and the kit) and see what each site says about what ammonia test is appropriate for this situation.

When it is time to wean the tank off the zeolite, go slow. It is great that you have 2 packets in there, you can alternate replacing one then the other, and just go a day or two longer each time between replacing them, and use less zeolite each time. Net result should be a gradual enough climb in ammonia that the bacteria population ought to grow with it, and you should see only a small amount here and there during this cycle.

[germGB]

Prime is well known for giving incorrect and occasionally absurd readings for ammonia, see here;
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html
I would have thought that with the continued use of prime you should be fine, maybe up your water changes a little in the mean time....
Oh, just in addition, if you are panicking and want that ammonia reading down to nowt, try seachems purigen, this would prevent your tank from ever cycling but if you use common sense along with it you should be fine.
Although never use purigen if you have used and cycle or slimecoat products containing anything amine based, it can make purigen create toxins.

[linarite]

Thanks germGB. I also did some research on the Prime and found that I am most likely getting a false positive reading as the test is salicylate-based. According to the Seachem website I should read the test immediately instead of 5 minutes later. By doing this I get a reading of 0 for the NH3. I have been adding Cycle to the tank daily and will continue to do so for a while. Tomorrow I will begin to very slowly remove the zeolites as Diana suggested. To say I was in a panic would be an understatement. I have really gotten attached to my loaches. They have provided a peaceful element to a very difficult year.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with info.