Pangio shelfordii? *** new pics/vids added 16/08/07 ***

bslindgren · Post by **bslindgren** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:38 pm

But first we need to be 100% sure that these are indeed Pangio shelfordii. Sometimes the suppliers list them as what they *think* they are, but this is not always correct. With such a high level of variation in this species, it may take a bit of looking into.

Excellent point! I couldn't agree more.

palaeodave · Post by **palaeodave** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:42 pm

Curse the lack of space in my tank! I'm just teasing myself by coming to the meet on Friday, aren't I?!

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:47 pm

Yup!

We always go home thinking damm i wish i have some space for these and that....

Mad Duff · Post by **Mad Duff** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:57 pm

Graeme Robson wrote:Yup!

We always go home thinking damm i wish i have some space for these and that....

And I wish I had more money, and I wish we had more space in the car, and the list goes on

I just normally get what I can and then use the 4 hour drive home to make up some good reasons why I spent so much and to work out just where the fish are going

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:45 pm

Graeme Robson wrote:Very true! After looking into different descriptions the Pangio alternans seems very close to these on identification. Time will tell after having a good bit of looking or investigating.

I've read the Pangio descriptions paper and just about everything fits Pangio alternans. General description, photographs, location, etc, etc.
Western Borneo (Kalimantan) in blackwater streams which at the time of collection had swift current.
They group them with the kuhlii group not with shelfordi.

Martin.

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:52 pm

Exactly. And these do not hold a slim-line look to them as the Pangio shelfordii or Shelfordii group would. Very typical in Kuhli shape they seem.

linarite · Post by **linarite** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:56 pm

Emma,
These are amazing! The colors are so unusual and striking. Great pics.

Whitey_MacLeod · Post by **Whitey_MacLeod** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:48 pm

Wow, stunning

I've been considering getting some kuhlis for a while- these are far too tempting

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:15 pm

Thanks for all the great comments!

The photographs of the preserved specimens of Pangio alternans in the Pangio paper look quite different to the photograph I took of the live specimens. I know that preserved pictures often look quite different, but they seem too different.

I must try for some more pics, including close-ups so that we can see more detail. Maybe tomorrow or Weds evening. Do you all think that the description matches? I'm not 100% convinced yet. I'll try and get pictures of quite a few different specimens as I think there was quite a bit of variation amongst the fish.

Emma

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:44 pm

I'm convinced enough based on the info we know. The fact that you had a geographical approximation of location is the clincher for me as P. alternans is only known from one small area.

Location, location, location

I'm convinced enough for this:

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-alternans

Remember that the original description doesn't seem to have been done from very many specimens and we all know how variable kuhli markings are within a species. The fish is called alternans specifically because of the markings being bars and blotches. The description describes the head stripes perfectly as seen in your pic Emma and specifically states that in small specimens the blotches may be faint or absent.

Martin.

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:10 am

Cool.

I did think the description of the head area matched perfectly, but it's the description of the rest of the body that I'm not totally sure about. But then, if the description was based on only a handful of specimens.....

I will get more pics, hopefully tomorrow evening, when I am at the shop giving the loach bamboo display tank a revamp (have spent countless days sawing up and sticking new pieces of bamboo to slate bases), and will add the pics to this thread.

Emma

Martin Thoene · Post by **Martin Thoene** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:12 am

Along with the pics of the newly refurbished display tank of course? Pretty please

Martin.

Emma Turner · Post by **Emma Turner** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:17 am

Ok, will do!

Mad Duff · Post by **Mad Duff** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:27 am

Now that I have seen these pictures my 40 gallon Kuhli tank is getting set up as soon a possible

I think my current group of 19 will be getting some friends

Graeme Robson · Post by **Graeme Robson** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:40 am

I hope you have plenty of these little chaps in stock Emma. Looks like Mark and i will being purchasing a good few!

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Pangio shelfordii? * new pics/vids added 16/08/07 *

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