"Big stomach disease"

[Mark in Vancouver]

Does anyone know where this term originated? It came up in a recent thread and it is grossly inappropriate as a diagnosis for any fish, IMO. Did this term originate on another forum?

[mistergreen]

sounds like a descriptive phrase that's all; Same with 'bloat'.
They don't identify any disease specifically.

[Mark in Vancouver]

Yeah, but a disease diagnosis is different from meaningless generalization. Bloating or "big belly" is inherently not a disease but a symptom or set of symptoms, and calling it a disease is immediately misleading to the person inquiring about it.

[Blue]

Yeah, but a disease diagnosis is different from meaningless generalization. Bloating or "big belly" is inherently not a disease but a symptom or set of symptoms, and calling it a disease is immediately misleading to the person inquiring about it.

True. The term also refers to constipation and other factors and I certainly agree with you on that, Mark. Misleading, in my opinion, as well.

[Mad Duff]

The first mention I have seen of this is on here, yes fish do get bloated and this can be a symptom of another illness but not a disease in its own right that I am aware of.

I have a B.almorhae that is full of eggs at the moment, a few more days and she will have scattered them and she will be back to normal and in a couple of months she will get fat again and repeat the process.

Someone could quite easily say without knowing the facts that this is "Big stomach disease"

[Martin Thoene]

A Google search on that term garnished zero hits where the 3 words appear together. Thinking tangentially, I searched on Big Belly Disease and got only one direct hit. This is a colloquial term used to describe Schistosomiasis by the Chinese. It is a water-borne parasitic disease and is communicable.

In China it is caused by Schistosomiasis japonicum and like many water-borne diseases an interim host is snails.

I can find no reference anywhere else, so even in this case of a specific identified organism the term being used is more a descriptive term of visible signs rather than a specific diagnosis. Signs are not symptoms either. A symptom is something described by a patient.

"I feel bloated" does not necessarily mean that you are visibly bloated. It is therefore a symptom whereas a visibly larger than normal belly is a sign.

In fish this may be caused by several different factors and might easily be misconstrued as being a disease problem when it is something far more benign. We know of one website where pictures of Emma's Clown loach Marge have been commented upon as being obese or overfed. It is not much of a stretch from there for someone to make assuptions that a certain rotundity might be caused by some detrimental organism.
In Marge's case the comments are made by people with no knowledge of normal large female Clown loach appearance due to the comparative rarity of such sized fish in the hobby. Without specific knowledge of exactly what is going on with any fish that exhibits a large belly it is misleading to use a broad terminology such as "Big Stomach Disease".

Martin.

[ckk125]

The infomation regarding loaches are some what limited as compared to other fishes.

Take Marge as an example, some say that she is an awesome loach(i do agree) while some things that it is obese,some says that she is mutated, most says that she is a female loach with eggs in her. However, there is still not proper or definitive way to differentiate the sex of a loach until it is dissected, unlike some cichlids where by we can just look at one and determine the sex. Marge maybe an exceptionally large male/female with some weird genes. We cannot know for sure until the day she gets dissected(which im not looking forward to it) to really understand it

Same goes to the bloat and skinny disease case, unless someone is willing and dare enough to dissect their fish, we will always be guessing the causes of such disease.

Just my humble opinion.

[shari2]

Personally, I think it arose here due to language issues. Correct me if I'm wrong but is English wasserscheu's native language? I think he was posting regarding his fish and for lack of a better term, chose that. Clearly his fish was ill from something. He was more describing than diagnosing, I think, and was asking for answers.

[Tinman]

30 plus years of fish keeping without hearing that one here.

[mistergreen]

Personally, I think it arose here due to language issues. Correct me if I'm wrong but is English wasserscheu's native language? I think he was posting regarding his fish and for lack of a better term, chose that. Clearly his fish was ill from something. He was more describing than diagnosing, I think, and was asking for answers.

agreed. I wouldn't make a big deal out of the phrase even if it's not a language issue.

[wasserscheu]

Hi Mark,

… just a quick clarification attempt, I did not read the entire thread yet and will do so later…

Sorry for me being somewhat careless with my language … as you know, I´m German (Austrian actually) and over here we use a German term for “abdominal dropsy“ I translated that into „big stomach“ which is absolutely missleading - I appologize.

In German we use that term (“abdominal dropsy“) in similar logic as “Skinny desease” which is not a desease as such, but a common term by now. There is no clear definition to that (in German) but rootcause is suspect to be bacteria for example “Aeromonas punctata” and/or “Pseudomonas fluorescens”. This “desease” is hardly curable…
Symptoms are for example extrem swollen liver, I dissected a colisa once, and even posted here... I´ll look for ot later and show a link if I find the pic´s again...

Sorry again, but just a big stomach should be actually quite allright

[Rocco]

The first mention I have seen of this is on here, yes fish do get bloated and this can be a symptom of another illness but not a disease in its own right that I am aware of.

I have a B.almorhae that is full of eggs at the moment, a few more days and she will have scattered them and she will be back to normal and in a couple of months she will get fat again and repeat the process.

Someone could quite easily say without knowing the facts that this is "Big stomach disease"

Don't mean to hijack this tread but... has anyone tried putting a gravid female Almorhae in a tank with a male?

[Blue]

Don't mean to hijack this tread but... has anyone tried putting a gravid female Almorhae in a tank with a male?

Interesting one, Rocco, however, it has been pointed no one has recorded any such breeding at all. Chances are, as Emma pointed out in another thread, males may not be fully matured to allow fertilization of the eggs.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

I also have never herd that term here in Brazil (25+years fish keeping).

Lovelly gravid female Mad Duff!

How old is she?

[Mark in Vancouver]

Hi Mark,

… just a quick clarification attempt, I did not read the entire thread yet and will do so later…

Sorry for me being somewhat careless with my language … as you know, I´m German (Austrian actually) and over here we use a German term for “abdominal dropsy“ I translated that into „big stomach“ which is absolutely missleading - I appologize.

In German we use that term (“abdominal dropsy“) in similar logic as “Skinny desease” which is not a desease as such, but a common term by now. There is no clear definition to that (in German) but rootcause is suspect to be bacteria for example “Aeromonas punctata” and/or “Pseudomonas fluorescens”. This “desease” is hardly curable…
Symptoms are for example extrem swollen liver, I dissected a colisa once, and even posted here... I´ll look for ot later and show a link if I find the pic´s again...

Sorry again, but just a big stomach should be actually quite allright

Hi.

Please don't apologize for not having English as a first language. Your English is great - at least you make yourself understood, which is far more than I can probably do in German or French without lavish hand gestures.

I was just concerned for the obvious reason that it's a misleading term.

It sounds like a simple misunderstanding, and I'm sorry if I over reacted.