Ideal Kuhli Only Tank?

[SLACkra]

Hello, I was pondering the idea of setting up a Kuhli loach only tank, probably a 54L (60x30x30cm) with 4-8 Kuhli loaches depending on how the nitrates do. I already have some equipment, we had a pretty serious house fire and some tank equipment was untouched and is in perfect working order. I have an Aquaclear 200 and a 50 watt heater (also have a 150watt and 200watt heater) which should be able to filter and heat the tank sufficiently. I've had limited experience with Kuhli loaches when I was 13ish where I had two in a 10gallon tank with guppies and then in a 15gallon tank. I have always had them with a gravel type substrate however I want something light enough and soft enough for them to safely dig around in it to their hearts content. Would a silica substrate be suitable for them? Also if I was to say have a 2-4cm deep substrate of silica sand would it be harmful for the loaches to use substrate fertilizers (I usually make my own, clay mixed with blood and bone then dried in the oven, it's quite effective) if I have plants such as Hygrophillia sp. or Amazon swords or any other aquatic plant that enjoy a fairly nutrient rich substrate? Also in your opinions would Kuhli loaches be likely to bother small herbivorous shrimp (I live in Australia and the species I’m thinking of is sold at about 2cm in length)? I was also thinking of adding some old dried brown eucalyptus leaves to add tannins to the water to make it softer as well as giving the loaches a more natural habitat and cover. What do you think of that idea?

Cheers,

Andrew

[loachmom]

Welcome to the forum, Andrew.

This is a great place to learn all about loaches. I don't know the answers to all of your questions, but I can tell you that I keep 9 kuhli loaches in a 30 gallon tank. It is 36" long. I added about 12 red cherry shrimp to the tank 2 months ago, and now I have most likely hundreds of little shrimp in the tank. So I would say that the kuhlis should not bother your shrimp. The shrimp do an excellent job of keeping the tank clean.

Good luck with your new tank.

[Martin Thoene]

Hi Andrew and welcome to LOL.

A tank design for kuhlis is part of our book "Loaches" which is now in print and should be available in around a month.

http://www.loaches.com/articles/images/ ... r.JPG/view

http://www.amazon.com/Loaches-Natural-H ... 735&sr=8-1

Basically, it's a soft-substrate tank with lots of plants and cover. The kind of thing you're thinking of by the sound of it. You might find that kuhlis would be more outgoing if there were some other small fish in the tank to provide a dither-fish type of action.

I think that your under substrate plant food won't be a problem but I'm not sure about Eucalyptus leaves. It's a fairly oily plant I thought and I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to include it in an aquarium. What has been used is Indian Almond leaves and these provide beneficial water chemistry.

Kuhlis don't need too much water movement. An Aquaclear 200 is about right I would think and you'll want to keep the water up at around 78F. A group of kuhlis and some small dither-fish will produce minimal waste so maintenance can be fairly light in this kind of setup. Just regular small water-changes and occasional filter media rinsing in old tank water.

Martin.

[Mark in Vancouver]

I keep my kuhli tank planted with Echinodorus tenellus on the substrate, and Anubias and Microsorum bound to bits of bog wood. This creates a dense lawn-like forest at the bottom and lots of shade from the top. They seem to enjoy the cover.

[SLACkra]

I hadn't thought of dither fish, honestly that’s the first time I've seen that term used ever and I've been in the hobby 7ish years. Probably go with something native to Australia, maybe a dwarf rainbow fish species as most also enjoy a warmer tank temperature. I was under the impression that Kuhli loaches enjoy a temperature around 28'C (82.4'F). I don't think the eucalyptus leaves have much of a negative effect. That is I had placed them in my previous 32gallon planted in an attempt to naturally lower the ph of the predominantly Amazon tank and didn't notice any change in the behaviour of the inhabitants (tetras, BN Pleco, Cories...). Plant wise I might also take a shot at Eleocharis parvulus and Echinodorus tenellus as recommended. I haven't kept either species but I'm always willing to give it a shot. My main goal was to keep the tank low light for the loaches but do you think they'll mind maybe a couple 20ish watt power compact fluorescents lighting the tank or two 18/20watt standard 2ft fluorescents. I may also go with a slightly taller thank than 30cm, possibly a standard 20 gallon tank to allow enough space for a large Amazon sword. I had one in my old 20gallon which was a fantastic centre piece plant and did fantastically producing several small Amazon swords on year when it sent out a runner.

Andrew

[Mark in Vancouver]

If you provide shade at the bottom of the tank, the brightness of the lights is not really an issue. E. tenellus is dead easy to grow even in moderate light. Like Java moss, you'll find yourself pulling large chunks of it out of the tank once or twice a year. It spreads very quickly.

[Emma Turner]

Hi Andrew,

Would it be possible for you to use a 90cm (36") long tank rather than the planned 60cm (24")? All loaches, even the smaller species such as kuhlis, appreciate a large footprint to explore, and unfortunately a 60cm x 30cm x 30cm aquarium is not ideal long-term.

Good luck with it all,

Emma

[SLACkra]

The main reason I was thinking of a 2ft long tank was so that it would be easy to relocate it eventually. I'm finishing up year 12 atm with my last exam this Friday and I am not sure exactly where I'll be living next year when I go to university. So with a 60x30x30/40cm tank it would be quite simple to pick it up with the help of my father and take it to where ever I live. I'll definitely be moving some time anyways as we are currently living in a rental house whilst our house is repair so it would have to be moved at some time. Will also probably add some pvc piping to the tank. eg have a long tub under the gravel going up to the surface with maybe a T section and a couple elbow pieces. Give them a little cave system to hide in. Also there is no rush for me to setup this tank, I'm going to be up in Queensland for a bit over a week from this Friday and I don't mind waiting until I've finally decided where I'm going to live in order to be able to setup a larger tank if necessary. One thing that I have learnt from all my time in the hobby is patience important, very very important!

Andrew

[Mark in Vancouver]

Totally agreed - patience is a virtue in this hobby. You want to maximize all aspects of the aquarium before you add the loaches. I think part of this includes stability. Moving fish is not something to be taken lightly.

[Diana]

Your tank sizes might not be exactly the same, but I have found that a 20 (American) gallon is quite easy for one person, even with a bad back. The one I moved this weekend is 24" x 12" x 16"
A 29 gallon is almost as easy, I have moved them before. 30" x 12" x 18".
I have a 20 long, too. 30" x 12" x 12". Great Loach tank, and easy to move.
While your tanks might not be exactly the same, I hope these give you some idea as to what is possible.
Part of the problem might be a fancy (heavy) cabinet style stand. I have a wrought iron stand for one of my 20s and it is comparitively lightweight. Much easier to move than a wooden cabinet of a similar size. Not great for storage, though.

A tank up to about 20 gallons will usually be OK on any sturdy furniture. A larger tank of course gets heavier, and suggests that a stand designed for that weight is a good idea.
I have sturdy shelves made for storing tools in a garage for several tanks (29 gallon on one shelf and 15 gallon on a shelf below it is the heaviest set up that I have on these stands)
I have a 45 gallon (4' long x 15" x 19" on an old wooden desk. The desk has sets of drawers on both sides, and touches the floor in about 8 spots.
I had a 40 gallon, 3' long, 15" wide, 17" high on a long dresser and the dresser sagged. Only had feet in the 4 corners, no center support. I can also lift and move this tank by myself, if it is totally empty, but much safer with help. Great Loach tank, though- another longer/ somewhat low tank.

[SLACkra]

Actually our tank sizes are basically the same except we deal in litres and centimetres. A 60x20x40cm tank is a standard 20gallon tank. The reason I use two people when I had to move my 32gallon tank was that I left 6-7 gallons of water in the tank as I did not feel the need to stress the fish by netting them and placing them in a bucket. So that’s 20kg of just water not including the substrate, the tank itself and the stand.

This actually reminded me that I still have the 32 gallon tank; it’s no show piece though (not that I mind). I've had it for at least 5 years and brought it over to aus from Vancouver Canada when we moved but it should do the job when I do setup a tank and have kuhli loaches. Probably add another powerhead though just to increase the water movement, I found the aquaclear 200 to be far to weak by itself with a tank of that depth.

So probably a 30x12x21" tank, aquaclear 200 plus powerhead of some sort, 150 or 200watt heater, 5cm or so of a light silica based sand, Amazon swords, pygmy chain swords, dwarf hair grass, Hygrophillia and most likely some dried leaves eucalypt or other wise as well as some pvc caves to provide cover. I also will be placing plastic mosquito mesh over the intakes of both the powerhead/s and aquaclear filter to protect the loaches. Probably stock the tank with about 10 Kuhli loaches, dwarf rainbow fish and some algae eating shrimp. The lighting most likely be 2 or 3 20watt floros or 20ish watt power compact floros. I may also look at high output T5 floros.

What do you think of that idea?

Andrew

[Emma Turner]

I've never heard of eucalyptus leaves being used in an aquarium. Evertything I have read about them on Google suggests that they are highly poisonous to most animals, so I don't think I'd want to add them to an aquarium just in case. Can you get hold of some dried Indian Almond Leaves (Terminalia catappa) instead?

Emma

[SLACkra]

I'll definatly look into it. I'll also ask about it on a prodomenantly australian aquarium forum. They'll know if eucalyptus leaves are safe or not though I'm almost 100% certain they would be.

Andrew

[SLACkra]

Just thought I'd post and say my belief that eucalyptus leaves would be harmless was confirmed on the Australian forum. One problem identified was bacteria breaking the leaves down taking up to much oxygen if there were many leaves in the tank however few should cause no problem what so ever.

cheers

Andrew

[Martin Thoene]

Don't know if you caught the "Loaches" book thread Andrew, but here's the kuhli tank design....



Martin.