the "black" kuhli loach.

[tinder_blast]

hello everyone!

I really love Kuhli loachs, there my favorite tropical loach. So naturally I've bean looking into getting some. I have 3 right now (they're new). One is a brown solid color, while the other two are the normal black and yellow pattern. I was advised by the people on Aquamaniacs.net to get a few of the black loaches because they were more adventurous.

I've noticed confusion on the Java loach. People refer to it as a color variation of the Kuhli loach, but I found a profile on this sight (Pangio oblonga) that described the Java loach as a different sub species. The stores that I've bean to seem to think that its the same loach, but different colored.

So is it OK if they are confused? I assume that they are cared for the same. My biggest concern is that the Java loach may not consider the Kuhli loachs company and its shooling needs wouldn't be met. Will he be ok in there?

[ltcory]

My advice is to just keep an eye on the Pangio oblonga, and if there is a problem, return it to the LFS for a refund. Full refund shouldn't be an issue, especially when you mention misrepresentation.

I am glad to see this post. I am in your same shoes of sorts. About 8 months ago, I bought 3 Pangio oblonga, and they were tagged as kuhli loaches. Which of course... they are not at all. You just help me identify my little guys once and for all.

Thanks

[Martin Thoene]

The term "Kuhli" loach is generic. They're all kuhli loaches but only Pangio kuhlii is the true kuhli.

Anything with the genus Pangio is a kuhli and with only a few slight differences most species will do well in the same conditions, plus mix with one another.

Martin.

[starsplitter7]

Martin, I just saw your post. For my own clarification could you explain the difference among the Kuhli Loaches? Are they different species, subspecies, color variations, . . . ? Do they interbreed? Thanks.

TB: My personal observations.
When I first got my Kuhlies I got 1 Pangio kuhli (striped) and 1 Pangio oblonga (black), and they were pretty happy together. Then I found some more Pangio kuhlie and got 3 more. All 4 schooled together happily. Finally found 2 more P. oblonga and 2 P. anguillaris (eel kuhli). All 9 hang out together. Every morning and evening there's usually a mixed group of 5 or 6 doing their Kuhlie Loach dance up and down the tank. When they really get going in their dance, the two tiny Skunk Cories join them, round and round all of them go.

They all pile on each other to rest. They also entwine with my small Horse Faced Loaches at rest.

If you like your P. oblonga, I wouldn't get rid of them. I would just add a P. Kuhlie or two when you get a chance. I do believe my P. oblonga are out the most. When I bought the P. anguillaris I had never seen them, because they stayed in the substrate at the LFS. In my tank they are out all the time. All three species are out and about and hanging together.

Tanja

[Martin Thoene]

Martin, I just saw your post. For my own clarification could you explain the difference among the Kuhli Loaches? Are they different species, subspecies, color variations, . . . ? Do they interbreed? Thanks.

The problem with IDing kuhlis is the variations of patterning within a species. you can get crossovers that make one species look like a typical example of another species for instance.

Species determination may be made by certain anatomical differences but often these may be internal so out of our scope as hobbyists.

Pangio kuhlii and semicincta are so similar that only by knowing the source location can you determine exactly which species you may have.

Species like Pangio shelfordi have immense variations depending on local populations and might get re-classified as subspecies in the future....who knows?

Generally, it can be expected that certainly the stripey species may possibly interbreed in the confines of an aquarium.

Martin.

[tinder_blast]

Thanks everyone for the great advice! I will indeed keep an eye on the Java loach (whom I've named Westeria). I haven't seen any problems between them, so I'll probably be keeping him (and Westeria is so cute with his rosy red cheeks and little mouth). I'm so happy to hear that Westeria shouldn't be wanting for friends with his Kuhli cube-mates.

I am planning to get at very least one more Pangio type of loach. I'll wait it out until I see one that really catches my eye (here's hoping for that unlikely Pangio cuneovirgata ).