greetings fellow loach-lovers, rare loaches? NEW TANK

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Directorate
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greetings fellow loach-lovers, rare loaches? NEW TANK

Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:54 am

hi! I'm from Australia and I'm new to loaches (and this forum).

What I basically would like are some really cool, rare (or rarer) and unqiue loaches, ones that most aquarists would not have. So that basically excludes the extremely popular CLOWN LOACH.

Price is not an issue.

atm I have a "yoyo loach" (nice fish, but a bit too common for my taste)
and 3 kubotai (which cost AU$40 each, roughly USD$35, these I quite like)
These guys are thriving, esp. the kubotais who like to "herd" the tiger barbs and so are now the "bosses" of the tank.

So what unqiue, most uncommon loaches do you guys know about? I repeat price is not an issue :)

Any advice on this matter would be appreciated! (ps its 500L tank)

ps I'm a big fan of loaches and catfish lol

-George

ps
Last edited by Directorate on Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

Dirk_H.
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Post by Dirk_H. » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:58 am

Hello to Australia!

Welcome in the best loaches-forum of the world!

Best regards
Dirk
honeste vivere,
neminem laedere,
suum quique tribuere.

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:12 am

Welcome Directorate,

Are you a collector? What's in the 500 now and how long has it been set up? What kind of filtration do you have?
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Emma Turner
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Post by Emma Turner » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:26 am

Hi George - welcome to Loaches Online.
We have quite a number of Australian members now, who should all be able to offer advice on what is available over there. I believe you have quite a few restrictions on what species can be imported into Oz.
Emma
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Directorate
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Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:56 pm

hey!

hmmm I guess I am a collector? lol

thx for replying: at the momemt there are 6xtiger barbs, 2xflame tetras, 1xrainbow shark (there were used as "tester" fish and to get the cycle going for the new tank).

There are also 2xgold gouramis (my mum wanted them :/), a small albino bristlenose plecostomus, and a young Black Ghost Knife.

Now Loaches: as mentioned before, 1xyoyo, 3x kubotai.

So now i;m kinda hunting for the less uncommon loaches, unqiue stuff, I mean don't get me wrong:I think clown loaches and yoyos are great, its just that almost everyone has them and so it'd be nice to have an amazon community tank to stand out (going for an amazon basin aquarium set-up, the lush Amazon river is just great, ain't it?)

oh shari2: Its been up for around 6-7 weeks now: so yeah its well cycled, ammonia and nitrates are zero etc

So could you recommend any of such rare loaches? thanks

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Tinman
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Post by Tinman » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:23 pm

Welcome Directorate and Hello


You stated
Price is not an issue.
The price of the fish rarely adds up to much of the cost. The real question is what size tank and filtration you will design and use because loaches reqiurements are your largest hurdle to cross,if you are new to loaches a couple thousand can be spent here immediatly on multiple filtration and some turbelle pumps for additional flow.
If you provide the high speed flow from 15-20X per hour and feed requirements these type of fish need the rarity becomes the price issue next .The rarest and the poached would be the most expensive but not always the most desirable for many reasons.
The rarest of all is the Clown as an adult speciman over 12" but as you stated not your idea of a rare fish although possibly a group of these would be the most prized by collectors .
Many other specie have hit the market recently and command high prices like the Emporer but as the area they come from is dangerous to say the least and few survive to market from the wild. Look at the specie index on the site here for descriptions to find something to suit you .The rarest you will not see in your tank when placed in as they hide well . Most loaches do not breed in captivity so to answer your question directly
So what unqiue, most uncommon loaches do you guys know about? I repeat price is not an issue
Poached or naturally endangered.....so undesirable to most of us

Unlike plecos rare is not the issue ,a large group of well cared for generic loaches is impressive to those of us that have kept them long term so the number of similar specimans ,not which kind becomes the Holy Grail keeping loaches. many have shoals over 30 of each and many several large shoals.

Post a pic of your planned habitat and you will get the answers for your question based on the tank,or which tell us which specie you choose then you will recieve advice on how to make your system work for them.

Directorate
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Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:48 pm

its a cannister filter, along 2 top filters.

Just HYPOTHETICALLY, even if the loach was rare in the wild, it'd certainly be safe in my hands.

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:39 pm

going for an amazon basin aquarium set-up, the lush Amazon river is just great, ain't it?
So, you're planning a relatively still, soft, low pH environment with lots of plants, bogwood, etc? Are you considering black water or just the mildly golden effect of leaching tannins?

If you're truly loving the Amazonian basin biotope the best loaches I could think of that would do well in such a set up are khuli loaches. Some are very hard to source, however, and often difficult to ID with absolute certainty. They are not native to the amazon, so having loaches depends on how true to the actual biotope you intend to stay.

For an amazon tank my personal preference would be a nice shoal of discus or altums, a large school of smaller, colorful species and a couple of peaceful bottom dwellers. It would have a sandy substrate, be heavily planted, with some open areas for the discus, and a bunch of interesting wood specimens (Australian ironwood is perfect for aquariums).

With a 500l (130g) tank, you have a lot of options. Can we see a pic of the tank? And what are the dimensions? Botia species prefer a long footprint with room to race, angels, discus, altums need a tank that is taller rather than longer.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while your tank may be cycled at 6-7 weeks, it is not what I'd consider a 'mature' tank and many of the fish I've suggested, including most loach species, are best introduced to mature tanks with well developed biofilm, biofilter, and ecosystems - including some types of natural algae. The youngest I'd go for saying a tank is fully mature is about 3 months.

Have you been keeping fish for a long time and this is a new venture for you, or is this your first foray into fishkeeping, or something inbetween? 8)



Have a look here:
http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_cardinals_discus.htm

Great pics of biotopes of a few types as well as links to other places you can find info.

And here:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/gallery.htm where you can see examples of some gorgeous tanks like these:

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Mark in Vancouver
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Post by Mark in Vancouver » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:00 pm

I'd recommend going for a lush Mekong basin biotope if you want to get into loaches. No loaches in the Amazon...
Your vantage point determines what you can see.

Directorate
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Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:56 pm

wow an reply informative shari: thanks alot!

Yes I am new to the fish keeping hobby, but I have done tons of research in all kinds of fish in the last few weeks: more on cichlids, loaches and catfish and water quality etc, but thx for the cycling advice.

As you said: the leeching of tannins making "mildly golden water" would have a nice effect: (more importantly good for the softwater fish too I s'pose).


Yes I know very well that loaches are not native to the amazon: but seeing as there so darn cool for fish, i'm more than willing to compromise :)

A lush "mekong" river type tank someone mentioned? (where loaches are native I guess)

I don't know much about those: do you mine showing or telling me what they look like please?

Oh and I would really like some native Amazon basin plants: that would be brilliant. So what are some of the amazon plants? The only one I know are the swords (I have 2 of these at the moment).

sorry but I'm lacking a digital camera for now :/, but the tank is 2 meters long, about 2 foot tall, and 20 inches wide

Those are great pictures: portraying great tanks! Yup discus are good. But all fishes being really peaceful would seem boring, the occasional brawl and chase is great. Which is why I like my current kubotais, who actually chase and herd TIGER BARBS (even though the loaches are much smaller than the barbs: which helps put the barbs in place stopping them from annoying the more timid fish), so I do value those kubotais for their strength of character.
Last edited by Directorate on Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Mark in Vancouver
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Post by Mark in Vancouver » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:57 pm

And when it comes to "rare" loaches, these are the ones that don't show up at your lfs. Hundreds and hundreds of species. If you're looking for the ones that don't show up at anyone's lfs, you're likely going to end up with endangered species - and these do not belong in collections and are probably restricted in Australia.
Your vantage point determines what you can see.

Directorate
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Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:04 pm

I'm not yet all too familiar with these aquatic acronyms: whats LF stand for?

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Tinman
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Post by Tinman » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:29 pm

If you have Kubs you need more Kubs IMO,and more current in your tank.
Here are some other types


http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstr ... -fast-lane

Amazons are not Asians, there is much reading for you Directorate

Search all the other links on this site from the home page....you need to move water like you never thought for Loaches, they require specie specific enviroment bio-scapes

LFS is the local fish store mate....

Mark in Vancouver
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Post by Mark in Vancouver » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:59 pm

I should add, too, that all loaches - kuhlis to hillstream loaches - are (or should be) considered intermediate to difficult in terms of care. They require a lot of work on the keeper's part such as keeping the water and tank crystal clean, increased aeration, and regular weekly or bi-weekly maintenance. The social species require large groups and the territorial species require adequate hiding spots out of sight from their fellows.

I would not recommend even the relatively simple Botia group for first time aquarists. Or, at least, I would suggest that the learning curve is steep.

Looking for "rare" species on a first outing with loaches, and wanting to house them in a biotope that doesn't suit them, is the wrong approach. Just my opinion, of course. But as most of these fish are wild-caught (certainly the "rare" ones), it does no one any good to plunk them in a tank and hope for the best.

As for the Mekong basin biotope possibilities, you have to understand the varying needs of different fish found there. Depth of water, water flow rate, substrate, food, sufficient tank size, lighting, temperature, and tank mates will vary from species to species... Do you want to keep a slower flow tank? Can you provide the tank with increased flow? Do you want to create a proper river environment? Quickly flowing brook? Hillstream?

For most of us, the idea of finding a "rare" loach brings to mind a very lucky situation with the local fish shop that might, by chance, import a species either on a whim or by mistake. And at the same time, you happen to be aware of the import. Trying to acquire such loaches without the active participation of an importer may take several years. Expecting a specific species of loach that is not popular in the hobby to appear at (or even be made available to) your lfs is unrealistic.

Meanwhile, there are dozens of species that do appear in the hobby/trade that make excellent tank specimens if you can provide for their needs.

The way you phrased your earlier post (and I mean no offense) was like you are just getting into the antique collection hobby and want to find a selection of Faberge eggs. This may prove for you to be a disappointing approach.
Your vantage point determines what you can see.

Directorate
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:44 am

Post by Directorate » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:33 pm

Tinman wrote:If you have Kubs you need more Kubs IMO,and more current in your tank.
Here are some other types


http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstr ... -fast-lane

Amazons are not Asians, there is much reading for you Directorate

Search all the other links on this site from the home page....you need to move water like you never thought for Loaches, they require specie specific enviroment bio-scapes

LFS is the local fish store mate....
I never said the Amazon is asian: Do you think I'm some kind of idiot? I meant alot of Loaches are from Asia.
Last edited by Directorate on Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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