Fiin rot help?

[andyroo]

If it's been raining (a lot/pulse) the public water supply may be high in nitrate, particularly if you are near an agricultural area.

[LoachOrgy]

well, unfortunately i had another cory with the same fin rot. but his was not as severe. i seperated him in the qtank. for 2 days treatment.

i took a closer look at the other cory's and some of them had a tiny bit of fin rot. whatever it was i placed them in the qtank as well.


an hour later one cory went into shock and died. he locked up and was upside down.

meanwhile the cory that had been in there 2 days which appeared to be the one with the fin rot, was fine.


the next morning another cory started acting the same way and almost died. i placed him and the other cory back in the large tank and gave him a 3 hour time lapse with small additions of large tank water until i released them into the large tank.

both those cory's are fine now.

the treatment was maracyn 2.

the cory that was initiallly in there starting doing the same thing all the other cory's did. he showed signs of bloody streaks in the corner of his fins and one on his feelers on his face. i didn't know what else to do, and i felt it was far to late but he died as well.

so ive lost 2 small albino corydoras and 2 large 2" emerald corydoras tha i have had for years. i am really confused as to what to do now. they didn't show sings of this distress until i placed them into the qtank.

all the water paramater tests were perfect. no ammonia, no nitrates, ph fine. everything was normal. im so confused i don't know what to do. i don't want this happening to my remaining cory's.

any suggestions? uv sterilizer what?

this is my conclusion, the fine sand i use is trapping some toxic bacteria or something the cory's are eating. its causing their bodies to get bloody streaks.

the maracyn treatment said that if you seee bloody streaks this will treat it. but thus far, the maracyn seems to be making things worse. and that may not be the case just my opinion.

please help before the rest of the tank meets the same fate.

should i do a substrate change? remove the sand?

im real confused.

[LoachOrgy]

also the kh in both tanks was 60ppm. and the gh in both tanks was 60ppm.

all water results have been consistent. im scared bc i see more fin rot on two fish. tiny but i see it. im scared to take them in the qtank and have them die as well.

ive kept up with consistent 10% water changes the entire time.

[shari2]

it sounds like you have a nasty bacteria in the main tank.

if you can get it, kanamycin treats gram negative and some gram positive bacteria and is also absorbed through the skin which is a major plus. at this point, i'd treat the main tank and break down and sterilize your qtank. throw out whatever bacterial filtration you have in the filter in that tank, or boil it to get rid of any remaining microbes/bacteria.

kanamycin comes in several preparations depending on the manufacturer. i'd try to get the powder sulfate form that comes in a canister. you'll need the 100g size to treat your tank.

Kanamycin sulfate - http://www.novalek.com/aquavet/kanamycin.htm

considering this is an ongoing problem and the maracyn II is not working, this is what i'd do:

do a water change into a bucket, remove the fish to the bucket (with some kind of cover like floating plants or an ornament available). stir the substrate and keep your nose to the tank. If you smell sulfur (rotten eggs) you have anaerobic pockets. watch for bubbles rising from the substrate as you stir. keep sniffing.

complete the water change. if you don't see bubbles when stirring, or smell that awful smell, make it a 50% change (max) and return your fish to the tank.

if you DO find bubbles and smell change out as much of the water as you can (you'll have to turn off filtration and heaters).

rinse off any wood/ornaments, return them to the tank.

make sure your substrate has settled, then add back fresh, temp appropriate, treated water slowly over a plate to keep the substrate settled.

Then treat the entire tank with whatever version of kanamycin sulfate you get, in conjunction with Nitrofurazone (API makes a powdered form called FURAN-2). They are safe to use together when directions are properly followed.

This is my best guess, LO.

[LoachOrgy]

shari, thanks for the help.

unfortunately no fish store anywhere near me carries the kanamycin sulfate. they do have furan 2. i will get that for now. as well as the live bacteria and any other suggestions.

i spoke to a local store that said it could be pockets of hydrogen sulfide in which he explained a similar procedure that you did above. but he said not to treat the tank but do water changes.

before i take on this big task. i want to make sure i do it right.

so i have a few questions.

how long should i keep the fish in buckets before placing them back in the tank?

and will this large of a water change cause some serious problems if its close to 50% water change? if i see these bubbles and smell the rotten eggs?

thanks n advance going on a medication hunt.

[loachmom]

Hi LO,

I'm sorry that you are having this problem. These things can be frustrating.
I haven't read back over this thread to get all the details, but I just wanted to share with you what we went through.
My daughter has a 30 gal with cories in it. One of the cories had a terrible case of fin rot and seemed to be in great distress--lots of fast, nervous swimming and flashing on the sand. The water parameters were also fine, and the other fish were not affected at all.
We were pretty sure we had a case of skin flukes, so we treated the whole tank with API General Cure. That cured the problem. The cory is fine today, and all the fins and tail grew back.

Hope your fish recover.

[Diana]

Large water changes do not need to stress the fish, and if there is some toxin in the tank the large water changes are better than keeping the fish in the toxic water.

Here is how I have done large water changes:
1) Test the tank for GH, KH, pH, TDS. (I do not keep salt in my tanks, but if you do, test it, too)
2) Run enough water into a garbage can to fill the tank as if you are doing a 150% water change. Make the GH, KH, pH, TDS and salinity match. If the TDS is a little higher this is not a problem. Make sure it is not lower. Use an aquarium heater to keep this water at tank temperature. Don't forget dechlor!
3) Put fish in a bucket with a gallon of the old water and a gallon of the new water. If the bucket stays at the right temperature they could stay there for a couple of hours, but I can totally change a 20 or 29 gallon and have the fish back in there in an hour. A larger tank of course takes longer. If there are more fish, then use more buckets. Make a 50/50 mix of old and new water for each bucket. You could add an air stone to the buckets to help with oxygenation, but keep the lids on and the buckets dark.
4) Do as thorough a gravel vac as you can, removing decorations, and really making a mess as you remove the water from the tank. The goal is to REALLY get all the gravel cleaned, and no lingering pockets. Clean the filter, too. Rinse most of the debris out of the media with water removed from the tank, then a rinse with the new water. (Discard this rinse water)
5) Partially fill the tank (25% or so) with the new water. Repeat the serious gravel vacuuming.
6) Set up the decor the way you want it, and the equipment, then use the plate, or a plastic bag to fill the tank.
7) Net the fish out of the bucket(s)
Keep the lights off the rest of the day. Light feeding the next day.

If you go farther than this and sterilize all the equipment, then have some Tetra Safe Start or Dr. Tim's One and Only ready to reseed the nitrifying bacteria.

[LoachOrgy]

thanks. so far i found api furan 2. i bought two boxes of it. i also picked up another treatment called "bifuran +".

the kanamycin sulfate i found online for about 80$ for 100 grams. thats really expensive. this is where i found it but this is all i could find. im going to continue my search early tomorrow morning.


http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html

http://www.strictlypetsupplies.com/_000 ... Medication

this is the only other form i found it in. but not sure if thats nearly enough to treat this tank. .2 oz.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11021/product.web



i planned on rinsing all ornament and plants. then placing the plants in the buckets with separated fish. i have many bubble stones and a 60 gallon air pump.

i will do this in the morning. had prior plans tonight. all fish are behaving normally now. the temp should be consistent tomorrow or consistent enough not to drop too rapidly. the tank water is near the house temp. near 80 but house temps are around 78 plus. i don't think i will sterilize anything in the large tank but i do have the nitrifying bacteria on hand. and now at the store it doesn't take refrigeration apparently.

i don't have a tds meter.

i also picked up the 6 in 1 test strips. and live nitrifying bacteria. i just did a similar clean with the entire tank no more than 2-3 weeks ago. initially this was done prior to the first round of qtank treatments with maracyn 2. the only reason i noticed any fish problems was when the glolight tetras starting gasping for air after the 50 percent water change.

in this cleaning i removed all rocks, all plants, all decor and sifted through all the gravel in the tank. there were no bubbles and no rotten egg smells during this time. i will do this again tomorrow after i remove all fish from the tank and give it a thorough cleaning.

here is one thing i notice. at the top of the tank near the water. there is a bit of grime on the tank. its clear and it not algae just biological waste accumulating near the top of the tank. ants will come and eat it off the tank glass sides as well. but i have been keeping up heavily with water changes. now its time to comb the tank. i usually wipe it down with a towel. otherwise i don't know how to clean it.

its just strange all this is still happening after i did a very thorough clean about 2-3 weeks ago.

thanks loach mom, although i don't believe its skin flukes. i think its something bacterial. im seeing random popeye, fin abrasion, fin rot, some fin rot has been getting very deep and even a few fish are showing signs of blood streaks. most of those fish already died. i have a few cory's and two glolight tetras that are getting a tiny bit of fin rot. i want to take care of this before i lose more fish.

although all this is happening, my loaches seem super happy with the water changes. but they are a bit moody bc i lowered their feeding big time.

Should I go ahead and do the tank cleaning and treat with furan 2 without the kanamycin sulfate? and then treat again with ks once i receive it in the mail?

[NancyD]

I missed your tank size but I looked into Kanaplex for a problem I'm having. The dosage is 360mg/10 gal, so for my 75g (assumed 70g actual water volume)

360mg x 7 = 2520mg per dose

2520 x 3 days of adding treatment = 7560mg (Seachem 3 day max but I have seen as many as 5 doses over 10 days)

7560mg / 1000 (divide by 1000 to get grams) = 7.56g

So I'd need 2 5g pkg of Kanaplex

Just to be confusing That Fish Place calls the 5g size .2 ounce

[LoachOrgy]

thanks nancy. i still have not ordered it yet. im still trying to figure out which one i should get.

the tank is a 55 gallon.

4 clowns
7 striata
3 upside down cats
2 albino cory's
2 emerald cory's 2"
3 rasboras
2 cherry barbs
1 tiger pleco that sits on his bum and doesn't clean any algae
2 glass fish
2 flame tetra
2 glo light tetras

rena xp3 on the tank. sponge filters, nitrazorb, bio media, charcoal
2 bubblers
ac jethead 70
aquaclear waterfall 70. bio media, sponge filter

[LoachOrgy]

ok. removed all loaches.

the tank has debris from plants. but no rotten egg smell or even a big amount of sediment or organic matter. ive picked up some pool filter sand to replace this fine sand.

also cleaned all ornaments and plants. the fish seem content with the dark ness and plant cover.

other than that, the tanks not in bad shape. should i just treat it with the api furan 2? and hold on ordering the Kanamycin or would it be ok to treat the Kanamycin in a few days when it is received?

i followed these same procedures about 2-3 weeks ago i think this is why its so clean. i was expecting more. maybe the bottom feeders already found the patch of hydrogen sulfide and that was what caused the problem. idk im just throwing it out there.

[shari2]

make sure you remove the strange stuff around the glass at the top.

do you have a microscope? it would be a great idea to take a look at that stuff on a slide...see if there's live stuff in it and what it might be.

did you set up the qtank for while you're transitioning sand?

[LoachOrgy]

yes. i also got my aquaclear working on that qtank now. and the biological bacteria was added last night. cleaned the whole tank last night, boiled all media and added new sponges to the tank.

will i need the fish in the qtank for a day or two when adding new sand. ive thoroughly rinsed it all more than 5 times each clump.

i don't have a microscope. or the funds for one.

[shari2]

no problem on the microscope. most of us don't have one or the know how to use it, anyway.

good luck, Dante. Hope you get a handle on it. I'll look around a bit tomorrow and see if I can locate a better source for the kanamycin. you may end up not needing it after all (one can hope!) but it is a terrific thing to have in your arsenal.

[LoachOrgy]

do you think i should add nitrifying bacteria to the main tank prior to adding fish back in?

right now ive cleaned all the sand thats going in. ive cleaned all the sand coming out. and taken 3/4 of the water out. ive cleaned out the filters with tank water that i removed prior to cleaning the filter.