Hillstream Loache Ill

[Gary Herring]

On Hillstreams and Barbs: Gary, which Barbs? -- very curious myself, and if these are common Barbs, they should be mentioned.

Rosy barbs(from the foothills of the Himylaya's) are happy at temps as low as 17-18c. Denisoni (red line torpedo) barbs 16-17c min. and like some current. These two would be suitable, there may be others also that im not aware of.

[Gary Herring]

The goldfish tank option is something that probably needs to be explored thoroughly with someone who has actually kept hillstreams and goldfish together. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't hillstreams often sold as cold water algae eaters in the UK? Also, remember that the first recorded breeding of chenis occurred in a goldfish tank in the UK

I have kept them (Beaufortia K. and fantails) together, and as i said above, found them to be incompatable.

Yes, hillstreams are sold as cold water algae eaters here in the UK. In fact its probably safe to assume this is how our friend mikeb at the top of the thread was sold his. Lets face it, not all, but a much larger preportion of goldfish keepers are likely to be children or others who (through no fault of their own) know little or nothing about any aspect of fishkeeping, ie goldfish bought as presents or won at fairs, etc. I just think that if we are going to condone Hillstreams with goldfish, we greatly increase the chances of them ending up in all those unfiltered goldfish tanks and bowls that are out there. Yes, im sure a bolder species like cheni COULD possibly be kept succesfully with goldfish, and i am aware of that first recorded breeding, but it is highly, highly unlikely this was a novice fishkeeper, and unfortunatly most goldfish keepers are novices.

[TammyLiz]

(He-heh: what about going to a Discus forum and asking if one can use Discus as a dither fish for hillstreams? This might be fun...)

The thought of this cracks me up, Mike!
Not that I have anything against discus, but thats just really funny.

unfortunatly most goldfish keepers are novices.

This is very very true. Someone I recently met at a mom/child playgroup heard I keep fish and said "I don't know anything about fish so I just keep goldfish". She keeps a bunch of them in a 10 gallon tank, and talked about how like 6 of them died last week and she wasn't sure why. (uhm, where do I start?) She was talking about bottom feeders and I asked what kind she was planning on getting. She described it and I said "A common pleco?". Her response was "Yeah, thats the kind I get. I know they get big but they stay small in little tanks like mine." Yeah, they stay small because they die and she's constantly replacing them! I'm talking about a decent, normal, responsible mother who has a tank for her son and just doesn't know because she gets all her info from employees at Petsmart. I bet there are a lot of people out there like that who think GF are just easy, replacable pets. It probably isn't a good idea to lump hillstreams in with them.

EDIT: Maybe you should put on there that they're for intermediate or advanced fishkeepers. That would at least discourage those parents who know nothing but have common sense from buying them for their kids.

[Jim Powers]

Those are all good points about the goldfish. After having taken care of a friends goldfish the last couple of days, (its in a tank not a bowl) I would have to agree that saying that hillstreams would work in goldfish tanks is problematic. I had forgotten just how voracious goldfish are, but to put it bluntly, they are PIGS!! An advanced goldfish keeper could probably pull it off with the right hillstream species. A kid, however, probably wouldn't.

mikev- as far as barbs, rasboras, or any other dithers for hillstreams, look at the body shape. Streamlined fish are stream fish for the most part and then check out fishbase.org to see what habitats the fish come from.
Also, since Hong Kong butterflys are not beaufortia, they are probably P. chenis. They are often sold as Hong Kong Plecos.

[mikev]

All right, it sounds like Goldfish is to be scrapped, at least until one can provide precise instructions on how to do this right and exactly what kind of Goldfish.

OTOH, Barbs imho must be mentioned. Rosy Barbs are one of the most common fish around, and this is a good option, maybe the best for starters.

Could someone finalize the feeding paragraph, please?

Also, since Hong Kong butterflys are not beaufortia, they are probably P. chenis.

Now you have destroyed my mood totally. I thought they were... My new tank is still not cycled (biospira did nothing good), and adding four more fishes to the crowded Q tank...Darn. Now I don't know what to do...

Streamlined fish are stream fish for the most part and then check out fishbase.org to see what habitats the fish come from.

I don't think such instructions should go into the flier....too complicated for the audience.

Quick check for myself: Rasbora borapetensis aka Redtail rasbora aka Blackline rasbora.
Streamline body all right, a very common species (I have too many of them myself), fishbase: 22 – 26 -- should be ok a 22C, fishbase: Occurs in ponds, streams and drains (Ref. 13061), usually in slow flowing, often somewhat turbid water (Ref. 27732). --- all right, streams!!! But I also see that the rasboras in my Q-tank now stay away from the powerhead. So I'm confused.

[Jim Powers]

The statement about streamlined fish was not meant for the fact sheet, but for you. Its a general statement at that, but can help steer you in the right direction for suitable dither fish. I can't imagine having so much trouble finding dithers for river tanks. I guess I'm lucky to have the choices.

Suggestion for the food section of the fact sheet:
Hillstreams eat a variety of foods such as algae wafers, shrimp pellets, frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp as well as flake foods that drift to the bottom. Many species will graze on algae and some will feed on par-boiled spinach and kale leaves.

[mikev]

The statement about streamlined fish was not meant for the fact sheet, but for you.

Got you -- for me this is very useful -- thanks!

I can't imagine having so much trouble finding dithers for river tanks. I guess I'm lucky to have the choices.

No, my thinking was that the flier should be made more acceptable for the fish stores, and if it mentions some dither fish they can sell right away, they will like it more, so all suitable *common* fish must be mentioned. (I have no problem: WCMM's are in two stores right now, plus the net).

Thanks for the food piece!

[mikev]

Also, since Hong Kong butterflys are not beaufortia, they are probably P. chenis. They are often sold as Hong Kong Plecos.

This was very prophetic of you.

I've asked the store for the scientific name for "HK Butteflies" (tank label) and they told me it is "HK Butterfly Plecos". Just out of curiosity I've asked them what kind of tank I need for them, and was told that any quiet tropical tank would do, and plecos generally enjoy very warm water. The tank was certainly above 75F--I could feel it. One more place that really needs the factsheet.

The next thing that happened likely was a very bad mistake on my part...anyway, photos soon.

[Jim Powers]

Let's see, I guessing the "bad mistake" you are talking about was buying some of those Hong Kong Butterfly Plecos.
Remember, resistance is futile...

[mikev]

Let's see, I guessing the "bad mistake" you are talking about was buying some of those Hong Kong Butterfly Plecos.
Remember, resistance is futile...

Hmm, not exactly, I bought all of them.

The place was worse than my usual slaughterhouse (but they looked healthy and seem to be working on my algae already).

Just please don't yell at me, I already know this was wrong....

But the resistance was futile...

[Jim Powers]

I wouldn't yell at you because I too, know that resisitance is futile. By the way, how many is "all of them"?

[mikev]

Five. Different sizes, probably a couple adults--they display a chest pattern similar to Martin's photos. I think they all are the same as SpC, even if some are much darker than the others.

[Jim Powers]

They'll probably end up with a better home than they would have. It will be interesting to see how your all Chinese hillstream tank works out.
Chenis are very interesting hillstreams that are very attractive, very active and eat a wide variety of foods. And then there is also that added bonus that they might breed for you.

[mikev]

They'll probably end up with a better home than they would have. It will be interesting to see how your all Chinese hillstream tank works out.

Probably, not the very best way. SpB is hyperactive and somewhat aggressive...well, we'll see how it works out in a much less crowded environment. Vantanmenia's and Cheni's definitely would have been a nice combination.

Chenis are very interesting hillstreams that are very attractive, very active and eat a wide variety of foods. And then there is also that added bonus that they might breed for you.

Yes! Have no doubts, I'll be asking about this too...if the tank ever cycles.

I actually have a decent resistance level to most loaches now. I resisted gastros, dojos, sids, and even two really nice looking horsefaces i do have space for...but there is something about chenis....

Q: is it normal for a Cheni to lower the dorsal when sitting?

[Jim Powers]

Most of the "sucker-belly" type hillstreams, chenis included, keep their dorsal down much of the time. They will usually only raise it fully when they are challenging another hillstream.
By the way, how could you resist gastros?