Medication question

[stjen]

Hello there,

I'm experiencing quite a problem right now and wanted to know if anyone could help me out. I've been suspecting that my fish have parasites for a little while now - I had a platy with a single white spot (Not "White spot"). For a little over a month I watched the spot and it never changed and no other spots appeared but the fish has been pooping funny.

Last weekend I had a different fish die out of no where and then another shortly after (neither of these were the fish with the spot). I started treating the tank with jungle labs anti parasite medication - which I can tell is helping because the fish seem happier. However, Now I am noticing very tiny dots on the platys tail/fins. The dots are very very small.

So I am wondering if my anti parasite meds will kill the spots if they are indeed the true "white spot" disease. The ingredients are praziquantel; N-[[(N-Chlorophenyl)amino]carbon 1]-2,6-difluorobenzamide; metronidazole; acriflavine. I have some ich clear in the cabinet but I really would like the anti parasite meds to do their job considering the other two fish died with no spots and I suspect a different parasite to be the culprit/ I've also considered bacterial infections but the fish are scraping against objects including the fish with no spots.


Thanks for the help.

[Diana]

Fish that are scratching against things and you seeing some small white spots sure sounds like the beginnings of Ich. It can get into the gills where you do not see it, and starts with such a small organism that it has already been on the fish for a few days by the time you see the spots.
The active ingredients of the medicine for internal parasites might help, but since you are seeing the spots, it may not be helping. These spots probably got onto the fish a day to three days before you saw them. Was the anti-parasite medicine in the water then?

Do not mix meds.

The treatment for internal parasites follows the life cycle of the parasite: Treat for a few days, then stop, then repeat in several days or a week if the parasite is one that may lay eggs or have some other resistant phase of its life cycle.

The treatment for Ich is based on keeping the active ingredient in the tank long enough for the Ich to go through a rather long life cycle, (depends on species of Ich, and water temperature, the life cycle may be as short as a week, but can be longer) to be sure of catching the phase that is susceptible to the medicines.
Read the other posts here at Loaches about Ich.
Unfortunately there are more than one species (or variety) of Ich, and they have different lengths of life.

One treatment is based on salt and heat. Platies will tolerate a high level of salt, but are not so great with really warm tanks (they prefer water in the 64-77* F range).
What other fish are in this tank?

Ultra violet sterilizer will kill Ich, and can be left running for a long time, but can deactivate other meds (bad news, for example, if you wanted to repeat the medicine for internal parasites)

Ich falls to the floor of the tank during part of its life cycle, and can be vacuumed out then. They do not stay there very long, and they are busy reproducing when they land on the substrate, so frequent (daily or every other day) vacuuming can help.

Traditional treatment is to keep the medicine (salt or other) in the tank until at least 3 days after the last spot is seen. This is usually about a 2 week treatment. I am worried, however that you say one fish has had a spot (not positive if it is Ich) for a longer time.

Google Lymphocystis. Try to find some pictures. Is this the spot that has been on the one fish for a while?

While we are trying to figure things out I would stop the medicine for internal parasites, do a couple of big water changes and run some activated carbon for 24 hours, then start with the Ich specific medicine you have on hand. (don't forget to remove the carbon)

If the other fish are OK with salt, and the medicine is OK in a tank with some salt then you could add a small amount of salt to help with the stress. With Platies and other salt tolerant fish I would use 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, added slowly, such as 1/3 of the dose each day for 3 days. (1 teaspoon per 5 gallons). Dissolve the salt in water and add it to the tank over the course of the day, each day.

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=15
This post is sort of the "Ich from hell" post, a worst case scenario.
Read through it, but especially go to the links on page 2, posted by chefkeith. They link to a company that makes medicines and other products for aquariums, and describe some of the recent findings about Ich.

[stjen]

The spot looked more like a hole than something on top of the skin. It didn't protrude out of the skin. I've been using the medication for about 48 hours now and the spot on the platy disappeared. But the supposed white spot is still there. The tank was probably treated after they were infected with white spot.

The medication I'm using now has acriflavine in it which I've read can be used (along with other ingredients) to treat ich so hopefully if the protozoan has started to cycle then the acriflavine will help kill it.

According to the anti parasite medication I have one more treatment to do tomorrow. Should I do the last treatment, wait 48 hours and then a big water change, carbon, and ich clear.

Or should I be more concerned about the ich than the internal parasites.

I am nervous about increasing heat because I have a weather loach and cory cats. The weather loach isn't showing signs of ich yet.

I am also feeding them anti bacterial meds (Jungle says you can use both their anti parasite tank buddys and anti bacterial food at the same time.)

I am not planning on adding any more meds without clearing the tank of the anti parasite meds first. But my big questions are. Should I be more concerned about the ich and get that medication started as soon as possible? Or Should I finish the parasite med and then start the ich treatment? Both the ich treatment and the parasite meds have acriflavine.


Thanks for your help!

[Diana]

That is a hard call, with similar active ingredients, I think I would finish the last dose of the meds for internal parasites.

Ich is much more of an emergency, though. Ich can go from a couple of spots to dead fish very fast, making it imperative that you get started on Ich meds right away.

However, any lapse in time between clearing one and starting the next allows the Ich to reproduce and infest the fish. Make it as fast a turn around as you can.

With those fish, do not raise the temperature. Ich can be killed at any temperature, it just goes faster at warmer temperatures. Keep the fish happy, though. Warmer water holds less oxygen, and can stress the fish. Make sure there is plenty of water movement for gas exchange at the surface. With the possibility of Ich in the gills you really want to make sure the fish can get all the oxygen they can.

[stjen]

Thanks. The tank is well aerated. and they really seem to be quite happy. I thought at first that they caught the ich from the stress of the other parasite but I think they caught it from the new bulldog plec. I very rarely see him and yesterday he actually showed himself to me and he has LOTS of white spots on him.

What I will probably do is use the last parasite meds tonight then let them run for about a day (the medication says that the last dose is just to ward off secondary infections) Then tomorrow I'll clean the tank out run some carbon and start the ich medication. Which also wards off any secondary infections according to the box.

How long should I run carbon before it is safe to say the parasite meds are out of the tank?